Eber not starting: Sorry

[stav]

Hi All,

Happy New Year.

Sorry for this posting but have made a start and was wondering if I can go further?

I am not sure what eber is fitted but it is a water based unit: DL4 or DL5? from early 2000, But can have a look tomorrow.

It ran a month ago but now refuses to start.

I have just a basic control/timer and when pressing the on button there is a little noise from the unit but then nothing, no clicks whires or anything.

I have tried swaping the relay.

The charger was on and the +V showed 13V.

I have taken out each fuse and given it a clean and put back.

I also disconnected the OV wire to see if it would reset itself.

Still nothing so not sure where to go next with it.

There are two thermostats and two heater matrices and the hot water cylinder. The hot water cylinder had had the immersion heater on for a week before trying to start it as forgot to switch it off.

From reading other posts it seems it might be time to take it apart and replace the glow plug? But really any advice on how to move forward would be helpful. Inviting an engineer to look at it is not an option the boat fund simply does not go that far. I have been sailing in some moderate weather and was wondering if water could have gotten in to the exhaust, but is that an exhaust drain shown in the photo? Also despite its age the unit has only run a max of 300 hours as when I bought it the system did not work and very helpful engineer got it running in Brighton and at the time I think he said it had only done 240 hours.

Any helpful thoughts would be really appreciated and comments about scrap value will be expected.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ctva]

When you start it and there is the little noise, what sort of noise? Is it a fan, check an outlet near the unit for a faint draft. If this is the case, you at least have power to the unit. First thing is to replace the glow plug, not a difficult job and then try again. Also can you access the pump to check if it is operating, could be a fault or block? Happened to me a few years back and the glow plug was the answer.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[pcatterall]

Possibly a D5W, be nice to know or to see a pic. Checking the glow plug is always useful but if it has the right resistance according to the manual and is clean then should not need changing. The most likely thing ( as it worked Ok a month ago) could still be bad connections, 13v doesn't really mean a good enough power supply at the heater. Has the unit an external ECU#
?

 

[David2452]

Difficult to identify from the small part of the boiler I can see in the photo (the coil on the exhaust is a condensate drain by the way) but if it were a 5W I would expect to see the circulation pump which is normally slung at the bottom. As has been said the first thing would be to check the voltage at the heater, this will be meaningful only if done with the heater during start up or applying say a 10a load as you can have volts but no power (amps) due to resistance in the cables or terminals. A better photo would be helpful as would a more detailed description of the noises.

Edit to say I have PDF manuals and fault flow charts for the 5W and Hydronic, if you would like a copy just PM me your email address.

 

[stav]

Thank you for the replies, I will get a better picture of the unit tomorrow, David2452, the unit is quite neatly contained but will PM you.

 

[cliff]

Don't have the manual in front of me at the moment but, as explained to me by an eber tech many moons ago, there should be a couple of temp sensors on the boiler bit, one for flame out and the other for over temp. With the unit running if the flame should go out the temp will drop, the FO sensor trip, fuel pump stop and the unit shut down. On cold start the position of this sensor is ignored for some time however if the flame is not established within a given time the unit will again shut down
The OH sensor works backwards insomuch as if the unit becomes too hot it trips and the unit shuts down, upon cooling this sensor should auto reset allowing a normal restart (until it overheats again), This is where the fun starts, if the OH sensor does not rest the unit "thinks" it is an overheat situation and will not restart. Find the sensor and manually reset it then try restarting the unit - the manual should show you where it is. NB these are bimetallis switches and are renowned in some circles for failing. they are easy to replace if you can source them at a reasonable price.

 

[David2452]

There are actually three sensors, two temperature governed and the flame sensor which has nothing to do with temperature. None of them are bi metal, they work on resistance altered by temperature. Neither the D5W or the later hydronic have a manual reset facility for overheat, the Hydronic needs the fault code reset with diagnostic adapter after 3 overheats, actually the only evaporator boiler I know of with manual overheat reset is the Webasto Thermo 90.

 

[stav]

thanks again for the replies and David2452, thank you so much for the additional information. Following this information I made up an LED and connected it to the blue/white wire (incorrectly to -v first) then when starting got a fast flash which I read as

"Electric line to metering pump
interrupted
Insufficient cooling water
Water circuit not properly bled
Water pump defective"

So checked the bleed and all ok. Stop there and went home.

Videoed the LED which is here: http://youtu.be/i158hFrV2Eo

Found out it is a Hydronic D5W with a digital mini controller and commissioned 26/3/02.

Couldn't read the model number but kit No: E2649/G, Part No: 25 2098 05


Guess the next thing is to remove and look for? Any suggestions? Will I be able to effect a repair?

Again thanks in advance.

 

[cliff]

There are actually three sensors, two temperature governed and the flame sensor which has nothing to do with temperature. None of them are bi metal, they work on resistance altered by temperature. Neither the D5W or the later hydronic have a manual reset facility for overheat, the Hydronic needs the fault code reset with diagnostic adapter after 3 overheats, actually the only evaporator boiler I know of with manual overheat reset is the Webasto Thermo 90.

I was referring to older units (~30yr) where there are 2 and both ARE actually bimetallic - nice to know Eber have moved backwards while the rest of the world moves forwards.

 

[stav]

Please, only after some help/hand holding whilst tackling an unknown, to me, system on the boat: Does that count as bumping it up?

 

[David2452]

Please, only after some help/hand holding whilst tackling an unknown, to me, system on the boat: Does that count as bumping it up?

Not really, have you checked the voltage during the start attempt yet, then try the pump by flashing it with 12v to see if it clicks. If both of those check out OK then come back.

 

[richardbrennan]

If it is making some sort of noise, I would check the fuel filter. This was blocked on the only time mine refused to start totally, I had an eberspacher engineer look at it and this was the first thing he checked. It also needs a couple of goes on occasions when the voltage is on the low side; it it's anything like mine the unit is a long way from the batteries and the cabling is not as thick as it might be.

 

[stav]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies,

David2452, I attempted to start it with the DMM connected and it was reading 13.4 volts on the +v coming in to the grey control box and brown 0V connection, when I pressed the on switch on the control it dropped to 13.38volts (on a not very accurate meter). I assume then this means there must be a bad connection somewhere not letting any current through and hence negligible voltage drop? took the unit out and using a small 12v battery got a click from the metering pump each time I touched the wires to the terminals. Did the same with the water pump and it spun around quite happily.

The boat has been in the marina for two weeks and has had a smart charger running for this period. I am wondering if it has damaged the batteries? The fridge unit had a flashing amber low voltage light yesterday but after removing the fuse and putting it back in all OK. Charger showing 100% charged and was delivering 1.5A. I have a spare car battery in the garage and thought I might take this down and connect directly to the +v and -V in the grey controller box? Since I have had it apart will the O rings sealing the water connections be OK or do they need replacing: do you know the size as I have an assorted box of them in the shed, or are they special to eber and do you sell them or should I get a kit from Flebay? Also what do I do about resealing the exhaust connections: do I just do up the split clamp or do they require some sort of sealing compound to be applied?

Again thanks in advance.

Also thanks richardbrennan: do you know where the filter would be, I can see no evidence of one on my system, or is it simply at the end of the tube that drops down in to the fuel tank?

again thanks in advance.

 

[David2452]

The voltage seems to be fine with just a slight drop, seemingly no issues there. The O rings are usually OK to re use with a little grease. For the exhaust connection just use exhaust assembly compound from an car accessory shop, though I wouldn't bother until it runs OK as it may have to come out, meantime just do up the clamp. Next question is what happens exatcly when it tries to start, is the air motor running, is the water pump running, does the pump click?

 

[stav]

There seems to be very little happening: After pressing the on button on the mini controller there is a pause of abut 4/5 seconds then a faint wheerrre a bit like a clock work motor unwinding and definitely not a click and lasts for less than a second. If the volume is turned up on the LED video ( http://youtu.be/i158hFrV2Eo ) it can be heard at 3 seconds. The mini controller shows the symbol to think the unit is running and remains "on" until I press the switch to turn it off.

Several virtual pints on there way to you David2452.

Thanks.

 

[David2452]

It really does sound more and more like it will have to come out as everything is on board and a lot of it is inaccessible in situ, you have the manual with all sensor values and the like and it can have a decoke at the same time, let's just hope it's a sensor and not the ECU. I know it's a cost but it may pay you to take it off and have it diagnosed on a test bed with EDITH, if you take it along to a truck dealer it shouldn't cost too much.

 

[pcatterall]

If it is making some sort of noise, I would check the fuel filter. This was blocked on the only time mine refused to start totally, I had an eberspacher engineer look at it and this was the first thing he checked. It also needs a couple of goes on occasions when the voltage is on the low side; it it's anything like mine the unit is a long way from the batteries and the cabling is not as thick as it might be.

The filter does not seem to be an issue here. The pump would still try to work even if fuel was blocked or not present. The OPs heater is not getting to the fuel pumping stage. The filter is located inside the 'big nut' at the supply side of the pump.

 

[stav]

Hi Guys,

Agree David2452, I have it in the car this evening and see two people on the island do eber service and will call this week. I have checked the values and had 1047ohms for the flame sensor, redwired temp sensor: 18K5 ohms, bluewired temp sensor 18k2 ohms. Even tried taking down a freshly charged car battery and wired it directly with very short leads: no difference.

Will report back next week.

Thank you so much for the replies and especially you David2452.

regards.

 

[richardbrennan]

Just to confirm; the filter on my boat is in the fuel line where it attaches to the pump.

 

[stav]

Thanks richardbrennan,

I have the unit at home now and will check this as part of a service/decoke. Thanks for mentioning it twice or I might not have had a look at that part and since it is easy here the more I check and clean the better it has got to be!