Easydive underwater kit? Safe for a newbie?

[lustyd]

Assume the 1 litre cylinder is pumped to 232 bar so it contains 232 litres of air.
Assume surface breathing rate of 20 litres per minute.
30m water depth equates to 4 bar absolute pressure.
Breathing rate at 30m therefore equates to 80 litres per minute
80 litre per minutes will consume the content of the cylinder in less than 3 minutes.

At the surface, the cylinder content would be consumed in a little over 10 minutes.

So you agree, it can indeed manage 30m and for a light breather could easily last 20 minutes.

 

[ryanroberts]

That curly pipe is going to be pulling your head up the whole time, surely? That said I have seen similar (but with straight pipe and the compressor on board) successfully used in the Caribbean for scraping the hull while at anchor, but always with someone on deck. I know diddly about diving, but I've done the same job snorkelling (jolly hard work when I was 20 years younger) and it's surprising how much current you get round the hull just from slight veering, and how hard and abrasive a hull to the head is, even when it's not bobbing up and down much. I can't imagine it being much fun or very safe in the case of a fouled prop, which would occur at sea, either drifting or hove to and with a load of tangly stuff floating around you. If you have the kit on board to do the reasonably safe thing (scraping the hull at anchor) I can't help thinking you'd be very tempted to do the unsafe thing when your boat is at risk, the adrenalin is up, and your assessment of risk is duly compromised. Safer to stay dry and call for help imo - there are limits to self-sufficiency.

I have done this a couple of times now (picked up a net Friday which stopped my variprop vari-ing), it's reasonably safe - I use a safety line, a decent solid steel ladder with 3 rungs under the surface and a cycle helmet.. Can wrap my legs round the skeg rudder and easily get my hands on the prop while remaining attached to the boat. I just use a mask for the job. I have never had to do it in any sort of sea, only anchored.

It's much more pleasant than getting stuff off a narrowboat prop, I have some horror stories.

 

[asteven221]

Really interesting to read everyones comments to my post. The experinced divers and instructers clearly dont like the idea of this sort of kit. I can get that if the user is stupid enough to think they are able to jump in the water and go wreck diving in deep water. The issue I have is that I am not stupid and can research and learn what I need to know for staying under water for 5 mins, going no more than 2m deep. How hard can it be?

I note that many proper divers advise that it is better to just hold ones breath and stick goggles on and jump in. That seems a lot more dangerous than having 10 mins of air via the Easydive kit. It seems to me, that extracting myself any one of the long list of catastrophic events that may happen would be a lot better with air strapped on my back, than having only 5 seconds of air remaining in my lungs before drowning.

Out of interest why is it dangerous to descend and ascend in 1 meter of water with Easydive, yet it doesnt appear to be such a dangerous problem doing the same thing with goggles and holding your breath? Not trying to be difficult as I am genuinely cant see the difference in terms of the effect on the body. I have dived to the seabed at say 2m loads of times when messing around in the water in holiday and in swimming pools. I never even considered I was putting myself in danger. Never had a single issue doing it either. Holidaymakers do this sort of thing all the time. Is the difference because in one case you are underwater for about 3 to 5 seconds, as opposed to staying under for 5 mins?

Apologies for any typos as using my phone which is useless for typing.

 

[ryanroberts]

yet it doesnt appear to be such a dangerous problem doing the same thing with goggles and holding your breath?

The regulator matches the air pressure to the water pressure, allowing you to breathe. This means the air is under pressure, so when you ascend it will expand and potentially cause injury if you do not breathe out

 

[lustyd]

why is it dangerous to descend and ascend in 1 meter of water with Easydive

It's because you can breathe in at 1m then ascend. You might then hold your breath long enough to burst a lung as you ascend and the air expands. Holding your breath from the surface you can be relatively sure your lungs have the capacity to hold the gas as you come back up.

Easily solved by breathing out, most people work it out themselves quickly enough.

 

[Graham376]

Really interesting to read everyones comments to my post. The experinced divers and instructers clearly dont like the idea of this sort of kit. I can get that if the user is stupid enough to think they are able to jump in the water and go wreck diving in deep water. The issue I have is that I am not stupid and can research and learn what I need to know for staying under water for 5 mins, going no more than 2m deep. How hard can it be?

It's not so much the kit, as the false claims made. I see no problem with anyone using one to clean the hull or clear a prop but the sales pitch invariably states they're suitable for diving which to me is a totally different situation for which they're not suitable and could easily lead folks into trouble. I once ran out of air through not monitoring properly and what I found surprising was there was no warning whatsoever. I had breathed out and then when trying to inhale there was absolutely nothing there. Rather than holding your breath, try breathing out underwater and then see how long you can last. Fortunately for me, I was opposite my buddy on a 6 metre stop so just used his air.

 

[europe172]

Really interesting to read everyones comments to my post. The experinced divers and instructers clearly dont like the idea of this sort of kit. I can get that if the user is stupid enough to think they are able to jump in the water and go wreck diving in deep water. The issue I have is that I am not stupid and can research and learn what I need to know for staying under water for 5 mins, going no more than 2m deep. How hard can it be?

I note that many proper divers advise that it is better to just hold ones breath and stick goggles on and jump in. That seems a lot more dangerous than having 10 mins of air via the Easydive kit. It seems to me, that extracting myself any one of the long list of catastrophic events that may happen would be a lot better with air strapped on my back, than having only 5 seconds of air remaining in my lungs before drowning.

Out of interest why is it dangerous to descend and ascend in 1 meter of water with Easydive, yet it doesnt appear to be such a dangerous problem doing the same thing with goggles and holding your breath? Not trying to be difficult as I am genuinely cant see the difference in terms of the effect on the body. I have dived to the seabed at say 2m loads of times when messing around in the water in holiday and in swimming pools. I never even considered I was putting myself in danger. Never had a single issue doing it either. Holidaymakers do this sort of thing all the time. Is the difference because in one case you are underwater for about 3 to 5 seconds, as opposed to staying under for 5 mins?

Apologies for any typos as using my phone which is useless for typing.

I think this post shows the forum at its best , you asked a reasonable question and got a range of well put points showing both sides. You can weight up the points made make make your call . Let us know which way you go

 

[sailaboutvic]

We carried a power dive for 15 years and I lost Count the amount of times we used it,
We only sold it a few months back and guess what we had a rope around our shaft the other day .
In the muddy waters of Netherlands I had no chance of a quick dive holding my breath to clear lt , as it happen I would had been out of breath before I got close enough to find the problem ,
Yes I am a sport diver but any equipment that help you stay down that bit longer is a big plus ,
The danger of getting into trouble a few feet under water is very low.
In our case I had to end up calling a dive to sort out the mess , he was down for a good 10mins untangling a tightly wrap rope around the shaft.

 

[V1701]

If you do buy the kit and use it without training remember to never hold your breath and also learn to equalise the pressure in your ears. Most people who try to get and stay under water withhout a weight belt will struggle so perhaps try using a weight belt first, you'll be amazed what a difference it makes and will need one anyway if you buy the kit. With a bit of practise you might well be able to do what you need to do. FWIW I am a former SCUBA instructor...

 

[lustyd]

Weight belts mostly counteract the wetsuit or drysuit, or if wearing an alu tank help when it's empty and buoyant. Most people are about neutral in the water, being made mostly of water. Unfortunately this becomes a self fulfilling prophesy a lot of the time because people are told to wear a BCD to counteract the weight belt and end up with too much weight and too much buoyancy. Obviously if it's cold and you're wearing a suit some care needs to be taken, but if you sling on a tank and jump in it works pretty well.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Nobody ever told me to wear a BDC to counteract a weight belt. This is uninformed rubbish! The point of a BDC is to transfer the need to regulate lung buoyancy at varying depths to separate bladder allowing more control with lungs instead of having to restrict breath size.

 

[jamie N]

Really interesting to read everyones comments to my post. The experinced divers and instructers clearly dont like the idea of this sort of kit. I can get that if the user is stupid enough to think they are able to jump in the water and go wreck diving in deep water. The issue I have is that I am not stupid and can research and learn what I need to know for staying under water for 5 mins, going no more than 2m deep. How hard can it be?

I note that many proper divers advise that it is better to just hold ones breath and stick goggles on and jump in. That seems a lot more dangerous than having 10 mins of air via the Easydive kit. It seems to me, that extracting myself any one of the long list of catastrophic events that may happen would be a lot better with air strapped on my back, than having only 5 seconds of air remaining in my lungs before drowning.

Out of interest why is it dangerous to descend and ascend in 1 meter of water with Easydive, yet it doesnt appear to be such a dangerous problem doing the same thing with goggles and holding your breath? Not trying to be difficult as I am genuinely cant see the difference in terms of the effect on the body. I have dived to the seabed at say 2m loads of times when messing around in the water in holiday and in swimming pools. I never even considered I was putting myself in danger. Never had a single issue doing it either. Holidaymakers do this sort of thing all the time. Is the difference because in one case you are underwater for about 3 to 5 seconds, as opposed to staying under for 5 mins?

Apologies for any typos as using my phone which is useless for typing.

Interesting and insightful response to the furore of your post. Thank heavens that you didn't include an anchor opinion within it!
As others have indicated, the advice from those with experience is to avoid anything that might fail. In 48 years of being in the industry, it seems to me that the more responsibility that one has on their immediate area, like this 1st metre and using a snorkel, is for the better. There are very few outside influences that can overcome the obvious mitigations in the first place.
This mini scuba tank looked a foolish attempt at delivering an experience which would persuade the diver to believe that it won't fail, when it is (clearly) with at least one questionable feature amongst all of the other usual potential points of failure, the changeover valve. If that valve fails, or if it's 'nudged into a semi-open position, water will enter the regulator, and a crisis is occurring to an untrained diver.
Without training it's entirely likely that when that snorkel valve is nudged into the wrong position, it could be the diver is seriously compromised; as in potentially having had confidence in the gear and then attached oneself into a comfortable position to clear a fault. In this case, unwittingly switching over to snorkel, or having the valve fail might well be fatal.
Getting the ballast correct 1st off, for snorkel and doing a couple of dips, looking down at the prop for example will help with evaluating the job required. If it's a net then you'll be able to see whether you need to risk being entwined with it, if it can be cut away easily or just pulled off.
Offshore, putting a diver in, was usually the least best thing, so I'd recommend a snorkel, a mask, properly ballasting oneself and patience, way before something like the "Easydive".
As an aside, would you have a single changeover valve between your air-intake and the seacock on the engine?

 

[lustyd]

Nobody ever told me to wear a BDC to counteract a weight belt. This is uninformed rubbish! The point of a BDC is to transfer the need to regulate lung buoyancy at varying depths to separate bladder allowing more control with lungs instead of having to restrict breath size.

No the BCD is to neutralise buoyancy. Your lungs have the same effect at any depth, but the gas in neoprene and undersuits gets smaller at depth so needs to be compensated for. If you have nothing with gas in then the only thing left to compensate against is the weight belt if it’s too heavy.

 

[capnsensible]

In scuba diving, the ability to maintain neutral buoyancy through controlled breathing, accurate weighting, and management of the buoyancy compensator is an important skill. A scuba diver maintains neutral buoyancy by continuous correction, usually by controlled breathing, as neutral buoyancy is an unstable condition for a compressible object in a liquid.

 

[Dave 71]

Really interesting to read everyones comments to my post. The experinced divers and instructers clearly dont like the idea of this sort of kit. I can get that if the user is stupid enough to think they are able to jump in the water and go wreck diving in deep water. The issue I have is that I am not stupid and can research and learn what I need to know for staying under water for 5 mins, going no more than 2m deep. How hard can it be?

I note that many proper divers advise that it is better to just hold ones breath and stick goggles on and jump in. That seems a lot more dangerous than having 10 mins of air via the Easydive kit. It seems to me, that extracting myself any one of the long list of catastrophic events that may happen would be a lot better with air strapped on my back, than having only 5 seconds of air remaining in my lungs before drowning.

Out of interest why is it dangerous to descend and ascend in 1 meter of water with Easydive, yet it doesnt appear to be such a dangerous problem doing the same thing with goggles and holding your breath? Not trying to be difficult as I am genuinely cant see the difference in terms of the effect on the body. I have dived to the seabed at say 2m loads of times when messing around in the water in holiday and in swimming pools. I never even considered I was putting myself in danger. Never had a single issue doing it either. Holidaymakers do this sort of thing all the time. Is the difference because in one case you are underwater for about 3 to 5 seconds, as opposed to staying under for 5 mins?

Apologies for any typos as using my phone which is useless for typing.

@asteven221 its not just about the depth, but if you're working under a boat, you don't have a direct route to the surface and then you have to consider the circumstances at the time. Yes, having an air supply would be easier. I expect people often use snorkels because they don't have a compressed air cylinder and all the other gear and can just jump in using a thing that cost a few quid. FWIW I would use the easy dive (or something similar using a small cylinder and harness) if anchored or on a buoy in clear warm water. But I have knowledge of diving and can do so making an informed decision.

Where/how is your boat berthed or moored? I'm in a marina, there is a pontoon forward, a floating finger to one side, another boat to the other, more fingers and boats beyond those. The water will be cold and murky. A bit dodgy to come up with your head between two boats or a boat and a finger, and only one route to clear water, heading out under the stern, obstructed by a rudder that you might not even see until you bang into it. Although the water would look 'less dark' that way, you might be 'heading towards the light' in a way you'd rather avoid. Less obstruction on a mooring, and you'd be daft not to go in at slack water, but you're still under a boat and you can still bang your head and its still dark and its still cold. It's an overhead environment like going in a cave or inside a shipwreck.

It will be dark and cold and in many places very poor visibility, likely often zero viz. Very easy to loose track of which way is which, and a situation which could easily cause panic to set in when that tiny little air gauge reads close to zero. Lots of opportunity to bang your head - hard - or get stuck under something

Maybe some will think I'm being melodramatic here and yes I'm being worst case, but its a crappy place to dive and a world away from a sunny shallow coral reef off a Caribbean beach.

Honestly just lift and pressure wash, slap a new anode on in the slings. If nothing else you'll avoid all the requests to scrape other people's boats when they see you using it!

 

[Buck Turgidson]

No the BCD is to neutralise buoyancy. Your lungs have the same effect at any depth, but the gas in neoprene and undersuits gets smaller at depth so needs to be compensated for. If you have nothing with gas in then the only thing left to compensate against is the weight belt if it’s too heavy.

Your first sentence is exactly what I said! Now tell me how you do a safety stop at the end of a dive or an emergency assent from depth without dropping your weights when wearing any type of insulation?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Your first sentence is exactly what I said! Now tell me how you do a safety stop at the end of a dive or an emergency assent from depth without dropping your weights when wearing any type of insulation?

 

[boomerangben]

Fantastic! Where else can you get an honest well meant question opening the Pandora’s box of diving instructors, flying instructors sailing instructors, ships captains, Boyle’s law with input from Charlie and Henry (Charles law - really????) and those advocating the Haynes manual approach to all manner of skills and past times. The only one missing is Neeves, but then again no one has mentioned the a word.

I tend to agree that using this with out at least some supervised practice would be foolhardy. We used to do STASS (short term air supply system) training in underwater escape training but no longer owing to the small risk of barotrauma injuries. I would say it took me until the second recurrent to get comfortable using it and I have done a fair bit of leisure diving so used to using regulators and being underwater.
What would worry me more is how to do the tasks you have in mind and managing the risks and hazards of being under a boat with the risk of becoming entangled in either the rope/net around the prop or some other discarded cord/fishing line etc.

 

[capnsensible]

Like this?

 

[boomerangben]

Like this?

Not as dramatic as that, just from an upside down helicopter. More of a paddling pool than that mine shaft!!