Easy start

[Wansworth]

Contacted a seller who says his boats engine needs easy start in the winter to start but not in the summer…..it’s a Sole ,Spanish built diesel,probably quite old.Any comments ,thanks.

 

[KevinV]

If he's using easy start regularly then walk away - it's for absolute emergencies only.

 

[Wansworth]

If he's using easy start regularly then walk away - it's for absolute emergencies only.

Ok,thanks

 

[westernman]

Contacted a seller who says his boats engine needs easy start in the winter to start but not in the summer…..it’s a Sole ,Spanish built diesel,probably quite old.Any comments ,thanks.

Will it start if cranked for long enough?

A normal old style indirect injected diesel (injected into the swirl chamber rather than directly into the cylinder) without glow plugs in winter will need a couple of minutes of cranking to heat it up enough to fire.

Ideally it should be heated before starting it. If it does not have glow plugs, may be you can heat it other ways (e.g. heating the cooling water). Or with a blow lamp.

So easy start, might not be a sign that the engine is broken - just it has no pre-heat possibility and it is not a direct injection.

 

[KevinV]

Will it start if cranked for long enough?

A normal old style indirect injected diesel (injected into the swirl chamber rather than directly into the cylinder) without glow plugs in winter will need a couple of minutes of cranking to heat it up enough to fire.

Ideally it should be heated before starting it. If it does not have glow plugs, may be you can heat it other ways (e.g. heating the cooling water). Or with a blow lamp.

So easy start, might not be a sign that the engine is broken - just it has no pre-heat possibility and it is not a direct injection.

All entirely correct, but regular use of Easy Start - whatever the underlying reason for using it - risks bore wash and detonation with subsequent ring damage - in turn causing low compression, causing difficulties starting, requiring more Easy Start...

So any owner who uses it regularly instead of addressing the cause is not someone I would buy an engine from - hence my advice to walk away.

 

[Wansworth]

Ok thanks for info….there are other boats on the market.

 

[PCUK]

Actually, several heavy commercial engines used ether starting as the standard cold start device. The myth about Easy start is just that. Presumably it doesn't have a cold start device fitted. You can always fit a Thermostart in the inlet manifold. That's ThermoSTART not 'stat' by the way.

 

[lynallbel]

I think it is bit of a myth when they say an engine is addicted to ether. If it needs ether every day regardless of weather, then yes it is most likely totally worn out, and that is where the addict bit comes from.

Some older indirect diesel engines are just rubbish at cold weather cold starts, anyone remember the old Ford 1.6/1.8 diesels?

Depending on engine it may have an excess fuel device that the owner does not even know about.

 

[PaulRainbow]

All entirely correct, but regular use of Easy Start - whatever the underlying reason for using it - risks bore wash and detonation with subsequent ring damage - in turn causing low compression, causing difficulties starting, requiring more Easy Start...

So any owner who uses it regularly instead of addressing the cause is not someone I would buy an engine from - hence my advice to walk away.

This is incorrect, you cannot get detonation in a diesel engine.

 

[KevinV]

This is incorrect, you cannot get detonation in a diesel engine.

Eh? Try mixing some petrol in the diesel, see what happens - it self ignites early.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Eh? Try mixing some petrol in the diesel, see what happens - it self ignites early.

That's pre-ignition, not detonation, this also cannot occur in a diesel engine. A diesel engine only compresses air, the fuel is injected later in the cycle, so it cannot ignite early.

 

[oldgit]

not sure about engines but it certainly got me going on occassion.....
Forget Napalm ...Ether came in a handy can.
A diesel soaked rag on bit of stick set on fire also did the job when push came to shove on a freezing winter morning.

 

[LittleSister]

That's pre-ignition, not detonation, this also cannot occur in a diesel engine. A diesel engine only compresses air, the fuel is injected later in the cycle, so it cannot ignite early.

But the Easy Start isn't injected into the cylinder, it comes in with the air.

 

[PaulRainbow]

But the Easy Start isn't injected into the cylinder, it comes in with the air.

Read post #11 and the post i'm replying to please.

 

[billskip]

I've used petrol fumes near the air intake on occasions.
One of the biggest problems with easy start is the tendency to over spray it, it only generally needs a very quick squirt when cranking.
Trouble is that when an engine is warn and requires a little help from a friend, its better to do that than heavy cranking because the starter and the battery take a hell of a hammering

 

[LittleSister]

Read post #11 and the post i'm replying to please.

I am responding to the post you wrote, in a thread titled Easy Start, saying explicitly
a) that neither pre-ignition nor detonation can occur in a diesel engine, and also saying
b) that pre-ignition cannot occur because the fuel is injected at the correct moment.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I am responding to the post you wrote, in a thread titled Easy Start, saying explicitly
a) that neither pre-ignition nor detonation can occur in a diesel engine, and also saying
b) that pre-ignition cannot occur because the fuel is injected at the correct moment.

You responded to a post i made, in response to a claim that adding petrol to diesel causes pre-ignition. The petrol is mixed with diesel, so cannot pre ignite.

 

[LittleSister]

Paul, you have a lot of detailed and informed knowledge of engines and electrickery, and I am, as I'm sure that many others are, very grateful that you share your knowledge on this forum, but here, in the post I have quoted, you have stated two things that are incorrect.

Why not admit you made a mistake in this particular instance? It's no big deal. We ll do from time to time.

I corrected your post not as part of some pissing contest but merely because most reading this read, now or in future, will be reading it to get information about the pluses and minuses of Easy Start, and likely not be in a position to judge what is true and what is not. Let go of your ego and see it from their point of view.

 

[penfold]

Pre-ignition is a phenomena of spark ignition engines, it is meaningless in compression ignition engines. So is detonation, at least as a deleterious event. Emptying a can of ether into an air intake isn't either of these things although it might break a piston.

 

[billskip]