Easiest swap for MD2B

[rotrax]

While you may be able to do that sort of thing with an automotive based engine that was built in huge quantities and in production until quite recently, try getting soares for a 40 year out of production marine engine that was built in hundreds rather than thousands and the numbers still running are tiny.

Talk to those who have tried to do major work on such engines and seen their potential bills approach the cost of a new engine.

So, while you may be able to keep a good one running for many years, particularly if you can stop it corroding away and run it hard and frequently, once anything major goes it is dead.

At least the Fisher, whatever you think of it has a value that justifies a new engine and later models were fitted with a Yanmar 3GM so nothing difficult about fitting a modern engine.

I quite agree, but in my case it was not what I would consider major work. It was time consuming and at times dirty, but as the head and sump came off in situ, allowing the pistons and rods to be removed, it was worth a look.

When all was cleaned up, the cause of the problem ID'd-salt build up in cooling passages-removed, it all went back together with only gaskets replaced.

I do have 50 years experience of rebuilding old stuff, often with no spare parts availability, so I was quite comfortable. I once cast a piston, using a paint tin as the pattern for the mould, Hillman Minx bell housings for the metal, for a single cylinder Bollinders engine in a Canal Narrowboat, one of the old rivetted iron Star class, IIRC. The origonal piston was of cast iron, and cracked beyond further use.

Hardest bit with the Bukh was easing the rings from the grooves in the pistons without breaking them-they are very expensive from Bukh!-and then cleaning the grooves of the white aluminium oxide corrosion that had jammed them.

The salt water ingress had seen off the injector nozzles too, only discovered after firing it up.

Yes, not for those without experience, but there is enough knowlege on here to guide fellow sailors without it.

I understand and respect that others are not in the same position as me.

 

[Heckler]

While you may be able to do that sort of thing with an automotive based engine that was built in huge quantities and in production until quite recently, try getting soares for a 40 year out of production marine engine that was built in hundreds rather than thousands and the numbers still running are tiny.

Talk to those who have tried to do major work on such engines and seen their potential bills approach the cost of a new engine.

So, while you may be able to keep a good one running for many years, particularly if you can stop it corroding away and run it hard and frequently, once anything major goes it is dead.

At least the Fisher, whatever you think of it has a value that justifies a new engine and later models were fitted with a Yanmar 3GM so nothing difficult about fitting a modern engine.

Nothing difficult about fitting a modern engine except the thousands you have to pay for it! And we know that Dylan hasnt/doesnt want to spend those thousands. For people like rotrax and me and I suspect your self, there is nothing finer than getting a Hepolite or similar catalogue and hunting down a piston that is somewhere near the right size and spec and modifying it to make it work. I know the piston rings i used in the first MD22 donk I wrote about were actually advertised as for an Alfa Romeo, the key to buying them of course was the fact that I did the Ebay search on the Perkins part number which brought the Alfa ad up. The pic quite clearly showed the Perkins box and part number so I was confident in buying them for less than £20, a steal!.
Paul at E R Williams that I mentioned is a fount of all knowledge and is heavily involved with the local classic restorer people scene. He has an encyclopedia knowledge of all types of engines and has the machinery to machine one off parts. I stand by my advice to Dylan, check the existing out, if necessary get someone like us to give a professional opinion and then go for it and stop fixating!

 

[maxi]

Replaced my MD2B with a 25 Beta (Kubota). Two short lengths of old angle iron were perfect to convert the mounts to fit these used by the Volvo. No need for Beta to supply anything else. 1200+ hours later I am still delighted with the swap.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

While you may be able to do that sort of thing with an automotive based engine that was built in huge quantities and in production until quite recently, try getting soares for a 40 year out of production marine engine that was built in hundreds rather than thousands and the numbers still running are tiny.

Talk to those who have tried to do major work on such engines and seen their potential bills approach the cost of a new engine.

So, while you may be able to keep a good one running for many years, particularly if you can stop it corroding away and run it hard and frequently, once anything major goes it is dead.

At least the Fisher, whatever you think of it has a value that justifies a new engine and later models were fitted with a Yanmar 3GM so nothing difficult about fitting a modern engine.

This may be a myth! Someone told me that the M.D. series were based on a Swedish generator engine, somewhat similar to the British Lister. Either way, the spares are expensive and difficult to obtain apart from service items.

 

[ghostlymoron]

If you decide to proceed with the Fisher 25, make sure it has bilge keels if you intend to dry out. A friend of a friend had one without and used legs to stay upright. One of them failed and the boat went over on its side apparently, he was afraid he'd lose his boat and moved to a non drying mooring.
Bilge keels can be retro fitted.

 

[Heckler]

This may be a myth! Someone told me that the M.D. series were based on a Swedish generator engine, somewhat similar to the British Lister. Either way, the spares are expensive and difficult to obtain apart from service items.

VP used the designation MD on most of their engines, IIRC it just means Marine Diesel. My MD22 is a Perkins Prima, developed by Perkins and BL from the old O series petrol engine. VP marinised it and called it the MD22. The MD20X0 series of engines are originally Japanese Perkins engines. The MD21 was based on the Peugeot 504 diesel engine IIRC

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

VP used the designation MD on most of their engines, IIRC it just means Marine Diesel. My MD22 is a Perkins Prima, developed by Perkins and BL from the old O series petrol engine. VP marinised it and called it the MD22. The MD20X0 series of engines are originally Japanese Perkins engines. The MD21 was based on the Peugeot 404 diesel engine IIRC

Correct! I should have posted that MD 1/2/B/C series engines were, I was informed, based on generator engines.

 

[Bilgediver]

Speak to Beta. They do a standard mount and Atomic mount for the USA. Plus other variations. They also do a standard sump and shallow sump also a standard exhaust elbow and high rise exhaust elbow. They have supplied many replacements for MD2B engines and recommend the Atomic feet for. Centaurs where the bearers are close (narrow) Before speaking to Beta find out the distance between bearers as they can supply to suite either. If the Fisher has narrow beds like the Centaur then you might need Atomic feet.

 

[Kelpie]

If you decide to proceed with the Fisher 25, make sure it has bilge keels if you intend to dry out. A friend of a friend had one without and used legs to stay upright. One of them failed and the boat went over on its side apparently, he was afraid he'd lose his boat and moved to a non drying mooring.
Bilge keels can be retro fitted.

OTOH hundreds of people successfully use legs without any problems. My own set of yachtlegs came from a Fisher 25. The company who made them claim to have never had a boat fall over when using their product.

(sorry for thread drift)

 

[ghostlymoron]

OTOH hundreds of people successfully use legs without any problems. My own set of yachtlegs came from a Fisher 25. The company who made them claim to have never had a boat fall over when using their product.

(sorry for thread drift)

The company is lying. How would they know, my friend's friend never told them.

 

[Bajansailor]

Here is an interesting variant on the 'standard' Potter 25 - she is for sale in Falmouth with an asking price of GBP 10k.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FISHER-POTTER-hybrid-25-MOTOR-SAILER/232783772838

They say that she has a 33 hp inboard Vetus diesel engine, but she also has quite a sizable outboard motor hanging on a bracket on the transom.

Here is some more info about the Vetus diesel :

https://www.abcpm.co.uk/downloads/engines/vetus/M415.pdf

 

[ghostlymoron]

What's the difference between Fisher 25 and Potter 25?

 

[steve yates]

Not surprising for an engine that went out of production nearly 40 years ago.

It really is not a problem fitting a modern engine. Thousands of boats have had it done and new engines are far superior..

You do tend to see problems that are not there.

I think it's rather that he is just looking for a solution that minimises costs, not an unreasonable approach surely?

 

[Tranona]

I think it's rather that he is just looking for a solution that minimises costs, not an unreasonable approach surely?

That is the whole point. If the engine needs replacing there is no significant cost penalty to fit a modern engine. The mods required to the beds are minimal. The only replacement that is a direct fit is another one of the same type, but the chances of finding one significantly better are slim and the problems of running such an obsolete engine stay the same.

 

[Habebty]

What's the difference between Fisher 25 and Potter 25?

Cabin size and layout. Potter normally has little or no saloon but a big open deck.