e-Borders - it's not only sailors who think it's a farce!

[pagoda]

I am forced to admit that I have some sympathy for your correspondant. He has been tasked with creating a watertight system that will sort out all the failure of the past 12 years of NuLabor government without any new money, resources or staff. Of course it is destined to fail and drag down those associated with running it. I suspect therfore he is already working hard on his exit strategy rather than answering your questions.

I find the whole concept incredible, since if I am ashore at Calais - I can drive pretty well anywhere in mainland Europe, including Switzerland without having to do more than slow down to about 10mph briefly at any border. Ditto on trains , I've never seen any interest at all personally from "land" border police -other than at airports. It seems there is still a very strong "control people" theme ticking away under NuLabor. It worries me a bit, since the ability to track people on roads is steadily ramping up, we still have the ability to cast off our lines, hoist the main and do more or less what we like. Something they in charge probably don't like the sound of.
Our independance is at stake here. Just wait for compulsory AIS? Hope not.
Read some blogs of people who have sailed in the Russian end of the Baltic for a taster of regulated sailing.. not a pleasant prospect.
I would rather the whole thing collapses quietly ( maybe even the current HMG?) without turning into a black hole for what few resources exist.

regards, Graeme

 

[maxi77]

I find the whole concept incredible, since if I am ashore at Calais - I can drive pretty well anywhere in mainland Europe, including Switzerland without having to do more than slow down to about 10mph briefly at any border. Ditto on trains , I've never seen any interest at all personally from "land" border police -other than at airports. It seems there is still a very strong "control people" theme ticking away under NuLabor. It worries me a bit, since the ability to track people on roads is steadily ramping up, we still have the ability to cast off our lines, hoist the main and do more or less what we like. Something they in charge probably don't like the sound of.
Our independance is at stake here. Just wait for compulsory AIS? Hope not.
Read some blogs of people who have sailed in the Russian end of the Baltic for a taster of regulated sailing.. not a pleasant prospect.
I would rather the whole thing collapses quietly ( maybe even the current HMG?) without turning into a black hole for what few resources exist.

regards, Graeme

All very true and I don't dissagree, but we have a government that has been pilloried for failing to control immigration and which has failed almost since it came into office to keep records of who is or is not in the country. One of the impacts of this has been a rise in support for the likes of the BNP and other isolationist parties and E-Borders is the ill conceived knee jerk reaction of a failed government.

 

[jac]

My own belief / hope is that the new government will realise what a farce it is - stop any future development in it but leave the bits that work in place and not face a battle with shipping / train companies.

They can then save a few million (which will be the main motivation) and employ a few extra border patrol guards / boats - do some random 100% checks on ferries / trains etc for the publicity then claim they have beentough on immigration - have saved money and saved private industry from over regulation and reduced the big brother state.

 

[wl745]

Border agency

Its the same for people travelling to the UK from other countries by air.The border agency is the sole arbitrater of whether a person shall be allowed in or not.My wife (not British!!)now has to fill a 33 page application and hand it in to be approved/not approved and she has been with me before this started and got the visa in about an hour each time.Now it will take min two weeks and the cost of the minimum visa if I remember correctly is round about 100 pounds .So now I guess there are a lot of happy locals in each country who have a job for life!!

 

[BrianH]

I was once, many years ago, offered the general manager's job at the new UK office of my Swiss company. Prior to accepting, my Swiss wife applied for residency while we searched for suitable housing.

She was supplied with a thick pack of forms to fill out by the British consulate - incredible questions such as "Have you ever met your husband?" "How many other people will be sleeping in the same room as you?" This was directed at the wife of a British subject, born in England of British parents and with the right of abode in the UK.

That experience added to the decision we both made while standing in a run-down, west Midlands, rain-lashed high street clutching estate agents' wildly optimistic brochures, while sodden, discarded newspapers and other detritus whirled around us in the gale-force wind, when she burst into tears and asked plaintively, "Do you really want me to live here?" Needless to say, I didn't and have never regretted it.

 

[wl745]

making money

Application wants bank statements,how long you have been married ,copy of wedding cert and so on.Now what really gets me is I can stay in my wifes country without paying for the visa!OK if I retire there(almost happening) have to give evidence of my pension and a certain amount in the bank .Its totaly uneccesary for a married couple to have to jump through hoops like this,still jobs for some in the civil service!!

 

[Gwylan]

More 'initiative' government, as others have said.
HMG sees a problem and thinks that legislation will make it go away.

Another Agency. How long before they find the power to raise a fee for each transaction?

People who want to get into the UK will find a way and making life difficult for 'pleasure boaters' will not stop them.
Does the borders agency really believe that undesirables are going to declare themselves, so that the watch list can pick them up?

Also the concept that boaters can use internet cafes in their port of departure demonstrates that the minds behind this scheme are intellectually bankrupt.
Internet cafes in most ports get harder to find. Finding one that is open in time with tides, that govern most boat departures, is another matter altogether.

Also this concept effectively turns any port of departure for a trip to the UK into a port of entry.

So how long before someone comes up with the idea that all boats must be equipped with computers and wi-fi or dial up capability?
Simple really, problem observed, make some legislation and problem solved.
Next you can't buy or sell a boat without it being equipped with a computer etc.
That means a new department for implementation, inspection, licencing and enforcement and so the story continues.

What is the RYA doing? The government seems to treat them as the stakeholder with interest in this area

Think emigrating the boat seems a good idea and we might not be too far behind

 

[Wansworth]

According to recent visitor Portugal already applies E B to Yachts.

 

[Bilgediver]

"Falmouth for orders"?

Been there done that so many times I lost count.....Wonder how it would be viewed as an entry on borders control?

 

[qzrvyq]

Sign the petition

Please sign the petition at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/e-borders4boatrs/ - this has 438 signatures so far and is open until 20th August.

The agency responsible still isn't listening. I have communicated with my MP (Theresa May) who did get a reply from the Minister responsible but it was simply a cut and paste from the standard responses already published elsewhere and on this forum.

David

 

[Refueler]

Well thats squeezyjet for you. We recently flew KLM and they only wanted passport details at check in. Mind you they have moved to almost wholly online check in, theough unlike many they realise whilst you may be able to check in online anywhere you may not be able to print your boarding card, so they have the option to do that at the airport.

Coming through Gatwick twice in last few weeks - I asked the Passport desk about what they thought of eborders .... both Immigration Officers answered similarly :

"Sir, it's already implemented and you are in the system, and it's working."

I had no answer to give - deciding that discretion was better part of valour !

 

[rallyveteran]

Coming through Gatwick twice in last few weeks - I asked the Passport desk about what they thought of eborders ....

No sure this is the best place to look for a considered response. Those people are conditioned to make decisions based on no more than 10 seconds thought and would be happiest if everyone had to apply for permission to cross a border at least a week in advance, because then their job would be even easier.

Whenever I go through passport control at an airport I look straight ahead, offer respect and crack no jokes.

When arriving by yacht in distant parts, it is a different matter. Loads of respect still oils the wheels, but an effort to find a subject of common interest (e.g. cricket in the Caribbean, or, surprisingly, the royal family even in places with no connection with the UK) has usually paid dividends.

E-Borders for yachtsmen is bonkers. People smugglers won't file a return, or will miss illegals off the manifest. If you are looking for a loophole there's 100 miles or more of land border between the two parts of Ireland with no checks at all. All that will happen if that law abiding citizens will be tempted to become law-breakers which is the last thing a society should allow.

 

[oldsaltoz]

Its times like these I feel like immagrating, but get put off with all the paper work I would have to fill out!

Nar, just book a nice boat trip and jump ship when you get to Australia, I did and that was years ago.

Avagoodweekend......

 

[Refueler]

I was once, many years ago, offered the general manager's job at the new UK office of my Swiss company. Prior to accepting, my Swiss wife applied for residency while we searched for suitable housing.

She was supplied with a thick pack of forms to fill out by the British consulate - incredible questions such as "Have you ever met your husband?" "How many other people will be sleeping in the same room as you?" This was directed at the wife of a British subject, born in England of British parents and with the right of abode in the UK.

That experience added to the decision we both made while standing in a run-down, west Midlands, rain-lashed high street clutching estate agents' wildly optimistic brochures, while sodden, discarded newspapers and other detritus whirled around us in the gale-force wind, when she burst into tears and asked plaintively, "Do you really want me to live here?" Needless to say, I didn't and have never regretted it.

My wife was asked when she first slept with me. They are standard questions.

 

[BrianH]

My wife was asked when she first slept with me. They are standard questions.

And should be answered with "NOYB" (None Of Your Business). Which my wife may have done if she hadn't violently binned the whole package with a satisfying German expletive after we returned from the UK.

The British Consul herself was somewhat embarrassed when passing over the forms, apologising for having to ask my wife to complete them. I didn't look at them at the time but understood later why she seemed so uncomfortable.

Seriously though, "standard questions"? What insensitive, half-brained, junior clerk thinks up this insulting rubbish and for what possible reason? If a genuine British national with the right of abode in the UK can prove the existence of a legally married spouse with no criminal record, what right has anyone to not automatically grant that spouse also the right of abode in the UK without pages of irrelevant and intrusive questions? Perhaps it is an attempt to limit the number of applicants by enraging and disgusting them - if so, it certainly worked with my wife.

 

[Searush]

The questions will be intended to weed out "convenience" brides who pay money to get "married" to UK citizens simply to enter the country. It is a common practice for ladies from poorer countries that would otherwise be unable to enter the UK.

Having said that, I doubt that anyone prepared to marry just in order to enter a country would have any problem providing the "right" answers to such questions without even blushing.

 

[rtchina]

crooks

The biggest crooks have the best credentials.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

[ QUOTE ]
The French, of course, would just riot and burn the data centre down.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's about time we emulated the French in so many ways.

the french police tend to sit and watch much of the civil disobedience as regards blockades. Can you see that happening for long in the U.K.?