e-Borders; do the UKBA know about real life?

DGH crew

New Member
Joined
4 Dec 2009
Messages
1
Visit site
Just for the sake of providing food for thought in the e-Borders "debate", I thought I might share an account of the two Channel crossings we made this Summer; this is an entirely bona fide account of the decisions we made... and we find ourselves wondering just *how* cruising sailors like ourselves are going to fit into the future e-Borders world where international voyages have to be notified to the agencies 24 hours in advance?

We like to spend our summers cruising our beloved 8-ton Hillyard around the Channel Islands and Brittany, so our aim is always to cross the Channel as soon as we comfortably can. This Summer, we set out from Yarmouth on the 23rd of July, and headed out via the Needles with the intention of heading south to the Cherbourg peninsula if the sea looked good for a long crossing, or heading for Poole if going south looked like being uncomfortable. In the event, it was Poole we headed for, because the wind was both more southerly and somewhat fresher than the forecasts had led us to hope for. The point is, that the decision to 'abort' the crossing was made quite a few miles out to sea, and not 24 hours earlier in the comfort of Yarmouth harbour...

Once in Poole harbour, anchored under Brownsea Island, we were conveniently out of mobile phone reception, let alone internet availability, and if we *had* filed a passage plan earlier, would have been completely unable to notify any agency that we had not left the UK after all. (Choppy conditions in Poole harbour would by the way have made an early trip ashore uncomfortable if not hazardous.)

In the event, we actually made our Channel crossing two days later, with no obvious opportunity to notify the agencies 24 hours before departure. If we had needed to notify e-Borders of our destination, we might have told them it was to be Cherbourg... but in fact, our intention was to make a decision, once within about 20 miles of Brittany, of whether to go to the better shelter of Cherbourg itself, or if the sea was settled and the crew fresh enough, we would anchor overnight at Omonville or Anse St Martin and have a shorter, easier-to-time passage to the Alderney race. As it happened, we plumped for Omonville. Surprise, surprise, no mobile phone reception, let alone internet availability, until we arrived the following day in St Peter Port, rather too late to notify anyone of our intentions in advance!

So, rather later in the Summer, time to head for home. Come the 18th of August, we were in Camaret, and decided to head that day for l'Aber Wrac'h, and cross to Cornwall the following day. The thing is, once we had had a lovely easy run in near-perfect conditions through the Chenal du Four, we thought we might just as well stay out at sea and get the long crossing over with... so that is just what we did, although 24 hours earlier we had no idea that we might do so. Arriving in the early hours of the following morning in the Helford River... surprise, surprise, no mobile phone reception, let alone internet availability to advise anyone of our spontaneous return to the UK.

The thing is, we are very ordinary cruising sailors, having very ordinary family holidays aboard our very special family boat, and I don't quite understand how the e-Borders notification system is planning to take account of people like us. I hope the RYA training types will not purse their lips too severely at our apparently haphazard, spur-of-the-moment navigation decisions. I don't happen to think that any of our decisions and changes-of-mind represented poor seamanship; many of them were made out at sea, and in the light of actual sea conditions and developing weather forecasts... but are we to be permitted to make such decisions in future?

The legislation as it stands at the moment "requires data to be submitted in an electronic format" -- it may be that a means of filing passage-plans (and changes of plan) via VHF through the coastguard operators might be offered, but otherwise, where do we all go from here? I fully understand that the UK Border Agency has no wish to place an undue burden on cruising sailors -- just wondering how on earth it will all work in *real life,* ten miles out to sea, potentially in sea conditions where spending even a few minutes down below to make a VHF call could be pretty uncomfortable?

Happy sailing,
Piers Snell.
 
Are we missing a trick here?

We can all become non-residents and save tax. Simply file an e-borders exit report and that information is going to be used to calculate the numbers of days you are either in or out of the country for tax purposes!

Time to buy that Gite I think, the tax saved would probably pay for it any way!
 
To make it work, it seems to me, they will have to make even more things compulsory!

e.g. for all sea-going craft
1) to be fitted with AIS (so they can track your position)
2) to be fitted with satellite phone/broadband (so that from mid-Channel you can phone them, or log onto their website and report yourself deviating from plan)
3) to have an annual inspection (at a cost) to prove said equipment is in good working order

Plus even more fines for not having any of that equipment. Or for turning it off. Or forgetting to use it. Or not having the right kind of certificate for using it. Or for not having been on a training course. Or for breathing without a permit.
 
Well of course it is unworkable. File a plan, do what is sensible and practical and if they don't like it let them sue you for the fine. A challenge in court funded by the RYA (we would hope) is the only way that the idiotic proposals for leisure sailors (if they ever get passed) will be quashed.

As long as we act with good intent and within the constraints of seamanship and safety we should not fear breaking a few bureaucratic boundaries.
 
To make it work, it seems to me, they will have to make even more things compulsory!

e.g. for all sea-going craft
1) to be fitted with AIS (so they can track your position)
2) to be fitted with satellite phone/broadband (so that from mid-Channel you can phone them, or log onto their website and report yourself deviating from plan)
3) to have an annual inspection (at a cost) to prove said equipment is in good working order

Plus even more fines for not having any of that equipment. Or for turning it off. Or forgetting to use it. Or not having the right kind of certificate for using it. Or for not having been on a training course. Or for breathing without a permit.

Don't for goodness sake give them ideas!
 
Well of course it is unworkable. File a plan, do what is sensible and practical and if they don't like it let them sue you for the fine. A challenge in court funded by the RYA (we would hope) is the only way that the idiotic proposals for leisure sailors (if they ever get passed) will be quashed.

As long as we act with good intent and within the constraints of seamanship and safety we should not fear breaking a few bureaucratic boundaries.

You mean common sense trumps beaurocracy? THAT WOULD be a first!!!:rolleyes:
 
Well clearly the electronic option is going to be a problem as outlined in the above posts, we all accept that plans change very quickly when sailing, the only logical way I can see this working is notifying CG by VHF, so they can forward to UKBA
 
But does a trip to a European country count as an international trip? - yes really. When I worked on the IT proposal for e-borders the border was considered to be the perimeter of the EU. The full e-borders worked as you entered and left the EU, but within the EU there is the freedom to travel.

For example you dont have to plan and record a trip from Netherlands to Germany etc. in fact in that area on the minor roads you can swap countries almost without seeing it.

Equally, I can buy an airline ticket and travel a few hours later, not giving 24 hours notice. I can even get all the way to the airport gate and decide not to travel.

I think in the end it will come down to the current statutory requirement to inform HMRC when you enter and leave the country, this will be extended to telling them the passenger list.
 
Last edited:
Given the record of all recent governments over here why worry? Have any of them installed IT systems which support the new set ups they dream up on the back of the old fag packets?

If we all did have perfect IT kit and did send in the messages we are sure to jigger any system, so why start?

In this country we still police with the goodwill of the public, keep going down this route and that goodwill is going to wear very thin.
 
Well clearly the electronic option is going to be a problem as outlined in the above posts, we all accept that plans change very quickly when sailing, the only logical way I can see this working is notifying CG by VHF, so they can forward to UKBA

VHF, clog up the overworked coastguard? No!

I think I would prefer to use code flags to communicate my border crossing intentions. Failing that a message in a bottle seems to be a good contingency (written in morse code of course), after all one should have redundancy in a system.
 
Well, next summer (maybe April and May) before the rain sets in again, I shall email them my intentions via my mobile. If there is no transmitter to carry the signal, I've got the email on my phone, and the transmission time and date. My intention to comply with the Law is clear. What they gonna do? Arrest 'Orange' for not passing on the message?

We all know what will happen. The system will be swamped and break down, the UKBA will ignore and gloss over the problem, until there actually is an incident, where they will try and shift the blame till the public enquiry, whece they will be found "not fit for purpose" and be reorganised/scrapped.

I also read tea leaves...
 
The thing is, we are very ordinary cruising sailors, having very ordinary family holidays aboard our very special family boat, and I don't quite understand how the e-Borders notification system is planning to take account of people like us.

That's your basic misunderstanding. It will be your responsibility to adapt what you do to the E Borders system not the other way round. So in the case you describe, you have to maintain your course and go to the CI or Cherbourg, and do not divert somewhere else.
 
To make it work, it seems to me, they will have to make even more things compulsory!

e.g. for all sea-going craft
1) to be fitted with AIS (so they can track your position)
2) to be fitted with satellite phone/broadband (so that from mid-Channel you can phone them, or log onto their website and report yourself deviating from plan)
3) to have an annual inspection (at a cost) to prove said equipment is in good working order

Plus even more fines for not having any of that equipment. Or for turning it off. Or forgetting to use it. Or not having the right kind of certificate for using it. Or for not having been on a training course. Or for breathing without a permit.

Electronic counter-measures seem to be the order of the day,
1.Get a GRP boat with terylene rigging,carbon fibre mast etc
2.Lag engine bay with carbon loaded rubber(microwave absorbing)
3.Observe radio silence, do not use radar,turn of any source of emmisions.
4.At night,do not use any navigation lights,dim red lights for cockpit illumination andchart table
5.Use only passive nav-aids,GPS, RDF turn of AIS
6.For coms use HF ssb short bursts only ( hard to direction find a signal source when reflected by sky wave)
7.Keep agood look out and cover up name of vessel and port of registration ,don’t fly any flag.
8. Grey drab paint job may help, but too damned obvious in the marina!

Good advise to all of you with criminal intent ,happy crusing folks

I know it is not April 1st!
 
Top