Dyneema soft shackle for genoa sheets

[MikeBz]

What diameter Dyneema would be recommended to attach sheets to the clew of the genoa on a heavy displacement 40 footer? And of the plethora of different soft shackle types out there which might be best? I’d particularly like the knot to not be prone to catching on the standing rigging whilst tacking.

 

[William_H]

I would think even 4mm dyneema in a soft shackle would be strong enough. However I always just tie my sheets to the sail clew with a bowline knot. Removed after each voyage. This has the advatage that the knot being a slightly different length (place on the rope) means wear on the sheet at turning blocks and cleats is at a different place on the rope. Giving longer life to sheet. ol'will

 

[AMOREST]

How are you intending to attach the sheets - the soft shackle gets you a loop - but to get the advantage of no big knots catching on the stays - you’re going to need to have loops spliced into the sheets - or if you are going for new Dyneema based sheets - perhaps taper off the sleeve.

As for loading - remember you have to handle the lines as well - so not necessarily need to go by minimum size for the loading. And your sizing needs to be worked out on your sail area and expected loading.

Also - do you pole out the Genoa - you might need to protect any bare Dyneema from the pole end gear as it can chafe easily.
No simple answer but …..

We have a Ben 411 with 135% Genoa -
I would expect 8 or 10 mm Dyneema to be big enough for the loading, easy to handle - and make them yourself - but get the Diamond Knot VERY tight. You tube is your friend.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

He could probably lift the boat with an 8mm shaft shackle. Massive overkill.

 

[AMOREST]

Agreed -

He could probably lift the boat with an 8mm shaft shackle. Massive overkill.

agreed - but there is more to it than just load capacity.

 

[fredrussell]

How are you intending to attach the sheets - the soft shackle gets you a loop - but to get the advantage of no big knots catching on the stays - you’re going to need to have loops spliced into the sheets -

Good point this. I cow hitched one continuous line to the soft shackle but under load it crept resulting in one Genoa sheet being longer than the other. Had to sew and whip the cow hitch to stop this occurring.

 

[Supertramp]

I started using this last season and its worked well. My sheets are 14mm, the dyneema is larger - I used a 4WD recovery loop with an insane breaking load. Proper marine dyneema rope would be better to reduce the knot size but it tacks fine and is easier to manage than the original two bowlines. It does wear a bit. I use a separate sheet with a snapshackle for the pole.

 

[CrossedThreads]

I started using this last season and its worked well. My sheets are 14mm, the dyneema is larger - I used a 4WD recovery loop with an insane breaking load. Proper marine dyneema rope would be better to reduce the knot size but it tacks fine and is easier to manage than the original two bowlines. It does wear a bit. I use a separate sheet with a snapshackle for the pole.View attachment 207608

I quite like the look of that actually. Feels neat. Much less weight on the clew if you ever need to deal with a wayward Genoa. Only concern would be chafe on the sheets… have you noticed much?

 

[Roberto]

I quite like the look of that actually. Feels neat. Much less weight on the clew if you ever need to deal with a wayward Genoa. Only concern would be chafe on the sheets… have you noticed much?

If you have a biggish cringle on the sail, the soft shackle button/diamond knot can be arranged to fit inside the cringle, it helps with sliding over the shrouds when tacking.

 

[flaming]

What diameter Dyneema would be recommended to attach sheets to the clew of the genoa on a heavy displacement 40 footer? And of the plethora of different soft shackle types out there which might be best? I’d particularly like the knot to not be prone to catching on the standing rigging whilst tacking.

A loop with a dogbone and a strip of velcro to wrap it up and prevent it from flogging loose is the Rolls-Royce solution. Mine are spliced into the sheet, but they don't have to be.

 

[flaming]

 

[michael_w]

I use two soft shackles so I can remove one sheet if required. Those hard eyes look as painful as the hated J-clips.

 

[flaming]

I use two soft shackles so I can remove one sheet if required. Those hard eyes look as painful as the hated J-clips.

If you mean the ones in my pic, they're extremely light. Definitely better than the old J clips. We also have a set of change sheets with just soft shackles on, and these ones are a lot easier to work with.

 

[Supertramp]

I quite like the look of that actually. Feels neat. Much less weight on the clew if you ever need to deal with a wayward Genoa. Only concern would be chafe on the sheets… have you noticed much?

No noticeable chafe but its early days. I chose the large diameter shackle to spread the load on the fixed position of the splice. I kept the splices open and stitched so they won't close up on the shackle. If chafe becomes an issue I will remake the splice and add some anti chafe fabric tubing. Splicing is easy using the unstretched end of the sheet.

I still use bowlines on the genoa but am very tempted to change to reduce the bulk and catching.

 

[Supertramp]

View attachment 207609

Thats neat. Presumably the fixed eye is to stop chafe and spread load?

 

[flaming]

Thats neat. Presumably the fixed eye is to stop chafe and spread load?

I would assume so!

 

[vyv_cox]

Dyneema soft shackle, I think 6 mm, which may well be larger than strictly necessary. When I carried out destructive tests on a wide range of fittings I found 5 mm Dyneema shackles generally stronger than 10 mm stainless steel ones. Eye spliced 12 mm sheets. Prior to this the sheets were tied to the cringle using bowlines, which almost always hung up on the babystay during tacks. This never happened after changing to this arrangement.

This shackle was in use in Greece for 15 years plus, the colour faded but it never broke.

 

[zoidberg]

View attachment 207609

There's posh!

I'm now wondering how come they haven't gone the whole hog and made the clew ring from sheathed Dyneema - or titanium. That would be lighter again!

I notice that those Chinese Dyneema soft shackles truck recovery loops are still available on Temu for about £5. Seems silly to pay several times that to a chandlery - and many times that to a French firm!!

 

[flaming]

There's posh!

I'm now wondering how come they haven't gone the whole hog and made the clew ring from sheathed Dyneema - or titanium. That would be lighter again!

I notice that those Chinese Dyneema soft shackles truck recovery loops are still available on Temu for about £5. Seems silly to pay several times that to a chandlery - and many times that to a French firm!!

I think there's still an advantage to having something that doesn't change shape when you put it under tension at the clew.

I can't imagine paying for a soft shackle, just make your own.

 

[zoidberg]

It's just a thought, in the spirit of 'what if'...

The structure of a headsail clew typically involves a steel ring ( internally or externally ) supported by several bands of high-strength tape looped through the ring and sewn back onto the sail panel.

I'm wondering if the steel ring could be dispensed with....