jimmynoboat
New member
I have just been sent this story and I had to ask - has anyone else had bother like this over red diesel in the Netherlands?
story here
story here
Dump your Red Diesel before arriving in the Netherlands?
- Thread starter jimmynoboat
- Start date
Santana379
Member
Blimey!
Would be very interesting to know if anyone else has encountered this recently. If it is a new policy, then I'm changing my holiday plans! If on the other hand I've been running this risk for years, then I may continue to do so.
Little Knot
Would be very interesting to know if anyone else has encountered this recently. If it is a new policy, then I'm changing my holiday plans! If on the other hand I've been running this risk for years, then I may continue to do so.
Little Knot
firstmatewendy
New member
HWMBO and crew have this evening arrived in Vlissingen with our boat (which will be kept at Kortgene on the Veerse Meer). After 21 hours of motoring/motor sailing in much heavier weather than predicted, I haven't got the heart to ring him up and tell him to look out for the Dutch customs.
Fingers crossed!
Fingers crossed!
sailorman
Well-known member
keep the reciept o/b seem to be the answer /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Becky
New member
I am sitting here just wondering if these good people have been taken for suckers.
HWMBO is quite nervous of this situation when we are abroad.
BUT, surely we can only buy red diesel, and as it is legal in the UK, it should only become illegal if we buy red abroad?
The thing is that with log and receipts one should be able to prove that no infringement has taken place.
I find this whole subject highly suspicious. I firmly believe that ungodly officials take advantage of us innocent Brits.
Unless someone on the forum knows better?
HWMBO is quite nervous of this situation when we are abroad.
BUT, surely we can only buy red diesel, and as it is legal in the UK, it should only become illegal if we buy red abroad?
The thing is that with log and receipts one should be able to prove that no infringement has taken place.
I find this whole subject highly suspicious. I firmly believe that ungodly officials take advantage of us innocent Brits.
Unless someone on the forum knows better?
moondancer
New member
I am fairly convinced I had water in red diesel from a marina a whie ago so now I fill up with jerry cans from petrol stations. The amount I use is quite small so it is just about practical and the cost is not an issue.
Seven Spades
Well-known member
I am sure that as the fuel was bought in the UK, it is in free circulation and as such if there is a Law in the Netherlands which prohibits its importation that law would not be upheld in the European Court.
I wonder what would have happend if they had said that they wanted to see or speak to a lawer before paying any fine.
I wonder what would have happend if they had said that they wanted to see or speak to a lawer before paying any fine.
ChrisE
Active member
I don't know for sure but my guess is that the Dutch authorities were being over officious and a polite statement along the lines of 'Please take me to the police station where I would like to talk to your boss' might have got a different response.
Oldhand
New member
The question is whether the EU, having removed the UK's red deisel derrogation as of 01 Jan 2007, agrees with our useless govermnet not doing anything about it until October 2008? Has our government got EU agreement for us to continue to use red diesel into 2008? If so we should all be issued with a copy of such agreement. If not, our government is forcing us to break EU law and should be taken to court for doing so.
Just wait until July/August, I'm sure the authorities in another well visited EU country will want to start checking our diesel tanks too....
Just wait until July/August, I'm sure the authorities in another well visited EU country will want to start checking our diesel tanks too....
peterb26
New member
This is a bit like the Portuguese Government totally ignoring EC VAT regulations on imported boats and cars.
Portugal make 100s of millions of euros a year out of illegally demanding Portuguese VAT at 21% from fully paid boat and car owners, yet Portugal continues to do this because the EEC only fine them 10 million euros each year - so its a good earner............
Basically disgusting but as it says in the article - who do you complain to?
Portugal make 100s of millions of euros a year out of illegally demanding Portuguese VAT at 21% from fully paid boat and car owners, yet Portugal continues to do this because the EEC only fine them 10 million euros each year - so its a good earner............
Basically disgusting but as it says in the article - who do you complain to?
Gumpy
Well-known member
Here is the text of a letter we had from the EU Directorate General for Taxation and Customs that up until Nov 2008 red diesel bought in UK can be used for propulsion anywhere in the EU
Hope its of use
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Further to my e-mail of 4th April, I have received a reply from the
Directorate-General for Taxation and Customs. Their finding are as
follows:
The United Kingdom' s derogation from the general provisions of
the energy taxation directive(1), allowing the UK to apply a reduced rate of
excise duty to fuel used in navigation in private pleasure craft, expired by
the end of 2006. The Commission communication of 30 November
2006(2) explains the reasons why the Commission did not propose an
extension of the derogation in question, as requested by the UK.
Therefore, from January 2007 onwards, the general provisions of the
energy taxation directive also apply for the United Kingdom.
However, the UK does not intend to reflect these changes until November
2008. HM Revenue & Customs' web-site carries a budget note (BN) on the expiry of derogations,
see:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2007/bn70.htm
which explicitly quotes the 1st November 2008 as the date by which fuel used for the purpose of private pleasure flying/boating will no longer benefit from the current reduced and exempt rates of duty.
According to the Community excise legislation and the jurisprudence of
the European Court of Justice, in case of fuel transported in the normal
fuel storage tank, the excise duty is chargeable in the Member State of
acquisition according to the national rules. It falls upon the Commission
to enforce the compliance of national legislation with Community law.
Consequently, in the meantime, people can acquire red diesel in
the UK and use it legally in another member state of the European Union, if
transported in the normal fuel storage tank.
I hope this is of assistance.
Best wishes
Marguerite-Marie Brenchley
Outreach Section
__________________________________________________
(1) Council Directive 2003/96/EC of 27 October 2003 restructuring
the Community framework for the taxation of energy products and electricity -
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32003L0096:EN:HTML
(2) Commission communication COM(2006)743 -
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/com/2006/com2006_0743en01.pdf
Hope its of use
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Further to my e-mail of 4th April, I have received a reply from the
Directorate-General for Taxation and Customs. Their finding are as
follows:
The United Kingdom' s derogation from the general provisions of
the energy taxation directive(1), allowing the UK to apply a reduced rate of
excise duty to fuel used in navigation in private pleasure craft, expired by
the end of 2006. The Commission communication of 30 November
2006(2) explains the reasons why the Commission did not propose an
extension of the derogation in question, as requested by the UK.
Therefore, from January 2007 onwards, the general provisions of the
energy taxation directive also apply for the United Kingdom.
However, the UK does not intend to reflect these changes until November
2008. HM Revenue & Customs' web-site carries a budget note (BN) on the expiry of derogations,
see:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2007/bn70.htm
which explicitly quotes the 1st November 2008 as the date by which fuel used for the purpose of private pleasure flying/boating will no longer benefit from the current reduced and exempt rates of duty.
According to the Community excise legislation and the jurisprudence of
the European Court of Justice, in case of fuel transported in the normal
fuel storage tank, the excise duty is chargeable in the Member State of
acquisition according to the national rules. It falls upon the Commission
to enforce the compliance of national legislation with Community law.
Consequently, in the meantime, people can acquire red diesel in
the UK and use it legally in another member state of the European Union, if
transported in the normal fuel storage tank.
I hope this is of assistance.
Best wishes
Marguerite-Marie Brenchley
Outreach Section
__________________________________________________
(1) Council Directive 2003/96/EC of 27 October 2003 restructuring
the Community framework for the taxation of energy products and electricity -
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32003L0096:EN:HTML
(2) Commission communication COM(2006)743 -
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/com/2006/com2006_0743en01.pdf
Seven Spades
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
This is a bit like the Portuguese Government totally ignoring EC VAT regulations on imported boats and cars.
Portugal make 100s of millions of euros a year out of illegally demanding Portuguese VAT at 21% from fully paid boat and car owners, yet Portugal continues to do this because the EEC only fine them 10 million euros each year - so its a good earner............
Basically disgusting but as it says in the article - who do you complain to?
[/ QUOTE ]
Under what circumstances? I have not read any reports of Portugal demanding VAT from VAT paid boats.
This is a bit like the Portuguese Government totally ignoring EC VAT regulations on imported boats and cars.
Portugal make 100s of millions of euros a year out of illegally demanding Portuguese VAT at 21% from fully paid boat and car owners, yet Portugal continues to do this because the EEC only fine them 10 million euros each year - so its a good earner............
Basically disgusting but as it says in the article - who do you complain to?
[/ QUOTE ]
Under what circumstances? I have not read any reports of Portugal demanding VAT from VAT paid boats.
sailorman
Well-known member
Thnx
i have copied & will keep o/b ready for july 07 /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
i have copied & will keep o/b ready for july 07 /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
TheBoatman
New member
I'd be ringing him up a.s.a.p and tell him to top the tank with local diesel.
Peter.
Peter.
omega2
Active member
Why oh why do we play ball with these EU idiots, we fought them for 300 years and beat the lot now we roll over at every whim they may have. GET US OUT OF EUROPE
wagenaar
New member
Customs and police are two different things, so I don't think going to the police would help much. I think a better option would be to contact the ANWB, the dutch tourist organisation, which could help. As a dutchman I find the attitude of the dutch custums in this matter ridiculous!
Major Catastrophe
New member
It may help if lots of people made their observations via this contact form to the Dutch Embassy, and linking to the Gwylan story.
Contact form.
Contact form.
rlw
Member
Hmm,
I keep my boat in Holland and one of my friends went to the Belgian boatshow. He spoke to the Dutch waterways police or customs who told him they would only check from 2008 onwards as there would be a lot of people with red in their tanks. However the key is to keep reciepts. I find it odd that you are asked to pay up but do not get any proof of the payment.
Rob
I keep my boat in Holland and one of my friends went to the Belgian boatshow. He spoke to the Dutch waterways police or customs who told him they would only check from 2008 onwards as there would be a lot of people with red in their tanks. However the key is to keep reciepts. I find it odd that you are asked to pay up but do not get any proof of the payment.
Rob
kingfisher
Well-known member
Standard stuff.
IMPORTANT: ALWAYS KEEP ONE RECEIPT from the UK
You need to be able to prove that the red diesel in the tank was bought legitimately. So you need a recent receipt from a UK or a Belgian gas station (or another place where red is legal).
In the story, the owner was asked if he had a receipt, and it is not clear whether they actually had one, I assume not. So this is not a case of dutch authorities robbing the UK sailor, but rather the UK sailor failing to be able to prove that the red diesel is legit.
What alledgely happens is that Dutch mobo's cross into belgium at the start of the season, fill up with red, and then fill up with red for the rest of the year with jerrycans (don't let the customs guys spot you). When the inspection comes and finds traces of red in the tank, you point to the receipt. Of course that story wont fly if they compare your log to your mileage.
IMPORTANT: ALWAYS KEEP ONE RECEIPT from the UK
You need to be able to prove that the red diesel in the tank was bought legitimately. So you need a recent receipt from a UK or a Belgian gas station (or another place where red is legal).
In the story, the owner was asked if he had a receipt, and it is not clear whether they actually had one, I assume not. So this is not a case of dutch authorities robbing the UK sailor, but rather the UK sailor failing to be able to prove that the red diesel is legit.
What alledgely happens is that Dutch mobo's cross into belgium at the start of the season, fill up with red, and then fill up with red for the rest of the year with jerrycans (don't let the customs guys spot you). When the inspection comes and finds traces of red in the tank, you point to the receipt. Of course that story wont fly if they compare your log to your mileage.
thalassa
Member
I'm a bit baffled that this story has come to light now. This practice has been going on for at least five years! We're a Belgian registered yacht ( Belgium until Jan 1st a "red diesel haven" too) lying inside The Netherlands on the Westerschelde, as many in our marina. Several of our Belgian members have been fined by Dutch customs. We always made sure we had a Belgian or English receipt if we had filled up with "red". They would accept it if less than three months old. One set of officers accepted a 5 month old receipt after we argued that we had white in the reserve canisters, that we were a sailing yacht, and only used "about a tankful" a year.
However, since the UK and Belgian derogation has been recalled since Jan 1st, Dutch Customs will see no reason why there shouldn't be white diesel in your tanks.
Belgian customs have declared "to observe a transition period". As this period has not been defined, the declaration is not very reassuring. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
However, since the UK and Belgian derogation has been recalled since Jan 1st, Dutch Customs will see no reason why there shouldn't be white diesel in your tanks.
Belgian customs have declared "to observe a transition period". As this period has not been defined, the declaration is not very reassuring. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif