dual battery solar charging and 1 2 both switch

PaulRainbow said:
The only way you can ft a VSR would be to connect the solar panel to the domestic bank and never connect the other output.

You do also have the option of following my diagram and fitting a VSR instead of the ArgoFET, but only connect the controller to the domestic bank.
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PaulRainbow said:
He cannot fit a VSR with the dual output controller.
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My point was that even if the OP followed your advice above, it would still be wise the consider the power draw of the VSR.
 
Porthandbuoy said:
The OP's requirements seem similar to mine. One solar panel feeding a dual output controller. The controller is configured 90% to house battery 10% to engine start battery.

On the mooring my 1/2/Both/Off is switched to the Off position. The batteries are isolated from any load (except the Eber controller) and the solar panel keeps things topped up.

When sailing I select the house battery.

When motoring I start the engine on the engine battery (when I remember) and switch to Both.

A VSR would spare me having to remember switching the 1/2/Both/Off switch.
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That makes sense and was what I was expecting to be able to do without this faff of keeping the batteries completely independent, which is what the manual says in post6.
 
Porthandbuoy said:
The OP's requirements seem similar to mine. One solar panel feeding a dual output controller. The controller is configured 90% to house battery 10% to engine start battery.

On the mooring my 1/2/Both/Off is switched to the Off position. The batteries are isolated from any load (except the Eber controller) and the solar panel keeps things topped up.

When sailing I select the house battery.

When motoring I start the engine on the engine battery (when I remember) and switch to Both.

A VSR would spare me having to remember switching the 1/2/Both/Off switch.
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That's me too
 
FairweatherDave said:
Thanks Paul. That's what I was hoping for ......... basic question. Where to locate the ArgoFET? 20x12cm box. Batteries are currently under the quarter berth. Does the ArgoFET need a more open location?
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Doesn't have to be close to the batteries, the engine room is a common place. It needs a little bit of space around it as it gets warm and shouldn't be fitted on "flammable" surfaces, but wood or GRP is fine, they don't exactly get red hot.
 
For anyone using a 1-2-B switch, i'd suggest a read of post #10. More so for those using 1-2-B switches and dual output controllers, as these should not have both outputs connected to the same battery bank, which would be the case whenever the switch is in the "Both" position.

I'd suggest to anyone doing that, fit a VSR and remove the connection from the solar controller to the engine battery. The VSR will take care of keeping all batteries charged, without the need to fiddle with the switch.
 
BabaYaga said:
My point was that even if the OP followed your advice above, it would still be wise the consider the power draw of the VSR.
Click to expand...

The Victron Cyrix-1 120a has a current draw of 220ma when closed and a mere 4ma in standby. It would obviously only draw the 220ma when the charge voltage is high enough to close the relay. Nothing to worry about here, i've installed lots of these and it's never been an issue.
 
Wow! I go out for a couple of hours and we are up to 27 posts. Batteries are the new anchors.

I have a 1-2-both switch and have been perfectly happy with it for the past 30 years. But I never set it on 'both'. The small amount of power drawn by starting the engine is replaced in the starter battery in minutes, so I if start it on 1, I leave it for half an hour or so, then switch to 2. In reality for the majority of starts I don't bother to go to the 1, the starter battery, as my three 110 Ah domestic bank is well capable of starting a small engine.

The requirement to have the two banks isolated for the dual charger to work correctly is, I'm sure, correct. When the engine is running with the switch on 2 the solar regulator is charging 1, and (I think) vice versa. I am not sure what happens if the switch was on both, I have never looked.
 
I'm not sure what the consequences of connecting the two outputs of the controller together might be?
Can it do damage, or does it just negate the point of the dual controller?
If the OP is familiar and OK with the 1B2 switch, then there is no absolute need AFAIK for him to spend another hundred quid on a FET switch. Plus the work of installing it and buying other odds and ends.
All cash and effort which many of us might have other uses for.
In my view it comes down to priorities.
The nicest charging system does not, on its own, keep the cabin warm or the beers cool.
For myself, I'd have a plan included a fridge and an eberbasto well ahead of FET charging swiches, and possibly more battery capacity would be in there.
But it's easy to spend other people's hard earned cash for them.
 
PaulRainbow said:
The Victron Cyrix-1 120a has a current draw of 220ma when closed and a mere 4ma in standby. It would obviously only draw the 220ma when the charge voltage is high enough to close the relay. Nothing to worry about here, i've installed lots of these and it's never been an issue.
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Just some very rough figures:
A 50W panel can be expected to produce some 12-15Ah on average during the summer months. But in winter the yield is much lower, maybe 20 percent of the summer output, so around 3Ah on average.
220mA during five hours of winter daylight is over 1Ah. Result: One out of three potential Ah's wasted by the VSR.
Whether this is of importance or not depends on how the boat is used in winter of course. But if the OP relies on the panel to get the batteries recharged between outings, he should be aware that the VSR might slow the charging down.
 
Don't want to spoil the party and I really appreciate Paul's efforts as well as the other contributors but it is most likely I will keep my wallet in my pocket and keep the 1 2 both switch. This is primarily because I don't fancy bobbing around on my swinging mooring trying to do wiring. I'm a wuss. I reckon I can use my solar controller and charge with the 1 2 both in the off position. And then if I actually want to start the engine and go sailing just disconnect the engine battery and use the controller as a single battery charger on the domestic, and keep it like that over the summer. I'm also considering putting some kind of blob block over the "both" position.
 
FairweatherDave said:
Don't want to spoil the party and I really appreciate Paul's efforts as well as the other contributors but it is most likely I will keep my wallet in my pocket and keep the 1 2 both switch. This is primarily because I don't fancy bobbing around on my swinging mooring trying to do wiring. I'm a wuss. I reckon I can use my solar controller and charge with the 1 2 both in the off position. And then if I actually want to start the engine and go sailing just disconnect the engine battery and use the controller as a single battery charger on the domestic, and keep it like that over the summer. I'm also considering putting some kind of blob block over the "both" position.
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I had a very similar looking controller to yours - probably just badged differently - and a fairly similar battery set-up and a 1,2,both switch. I mostly used it in the way that Vyv describes but sometimes had the switch on 'both' and had no problem with the controller.

That said, I soon upgraded to separate engine and house circuits and I'm now a true believer.
 
Poey50 said:
I had a very similar looking controller to yours - probably just badged differently - and a fairly similar battery set-up and a 1,2,both switch. I mostly used it in the way that Vyv describes but sometimes had the switch on 'both' and had no problem with the controller.

That said, I soon upgraded to separate engine and house circuits and I'm now a true believer.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Quite probable I will upgrade to separate circuits too but I want to understand fully what I am doing and be ashore for the winter when I do it. Right now the priority is just to get the batteries being charged by solar while they are still in a good place after the summer.
 
PaulRainbow said:
With respect, that's a very bad way of doing things. It is absolutely not how the switch was designed to be used and is about the most dangerous way of doing it. You should only ever use the both setting for emergency starting.

For charging you should charge on each position independently. All of the time the switch is on "Both" all of your batteries are hard wired together, so why have separate banks ?

It's even worse doing it whilst sailing. There is no charge going into the batteries, so you could deplete them all and be unable to start the engine. Also, if a battery failed in a certain way it could rapidly deplete all of your batteries and leave you without power altogether.

If you don't want to change the switch to the vastly superior system of having separate switches, at least fit the VSR you are considering. That way, you can adopt one of two (better) methods. Either, start the engine on "1" then switch to "2" or always just use "2", keeping the engine battery in reserve for emergencies. With either method your batteries remain independent and both will get charged without having to fiddle with the switch.
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WHOOPS! - I meant to write on '2 whilst sailing...' must be the beer I'm drinking to slake my thirst after a day in the garden...
 
lw395 said:
I'm not sure what the consequences of connecting the two outputs of the controller together might be?
Can it do damage, or does it just negate the point of the dual controller?
If the OP is familiar and OK with the 1B2 switch, then there is no absolute need AFAIK for him to spend another hundred quid on a FET switch. Plus the work of installing it and buying other odds and ends.
All cash and effort which many of us might have other uses for.
In my view it comes down to priorities.
The nicest charging system does not, on its own, keep the cabin warm or the beers cool.
For myself, I'd have a plan included a fridge and an eberbasto well ahead of FET charging swiches, and possibly more battery capacity would be in there.
But it's easy to spend other people's hard earned cash for them.
Click to expand...

As i'm the only one to suggest the Argofet, that's obviously aimed at me. You really can be an arse sometimes.

I have suggested several different options in this thread and posted schematics for most. I also offered a solution to the immediate problem of the controller and the fiddling with the switch

If you don't want to change the switch to the vastly superior system of having separate switches, at least fit the VSR you are considering. That way, you can adopt one of two (better) methods. Either, start the engine on "1" then switch to "2" or always just use "2", keeping the engine battery in reserve for emergencies. With either method your batteries remain independent and both will get charged without having to fiddle with the switch.
Click to expand...
 
FairweatherDave said:
Don't want to spoil the party and I really appreciate Paul's efforts as well as the other contributors but it is most likely I will keep my wallet in my pocket and keep the 1 2 both switch.
Click to expand...

Not a problem Dave. You can still keep it cheap and simple, by fitting a VSR, leaving the switch and only connecting the solar controller to the domestic bank. Easy to connect, a cable from each battery positive and a small gauge negative to the VSR . If you decided next year to change to separate switches the VSR could be left in place (no need for the Argofet). Saves fiddling with the 1-2-B in the meantime.
 
PaulRainbow said:
Not a problem Dave. You can still keep it cheap and simple, by fitting a VSR, leaving the switch and only connecting the solar controller to the domestic bank. Easy to connect, a cable from each battery positive and a small gauge negative to the VSR . If you decided next year to change to separate switches the VSR could be left in place (no need for the Argofet). Saves fiddling with the 1-2-B in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Which achieves what exactly?
 
PetiteFleur said:
The BEP switches mentioned - are these the ones? https://www.furneauxriddall.com/aca...th-Two-Dedicated-Battery-Banks-BEP_715_H.html They certainly seem the correct ones, already wired up, horizontal or vertical bank available. (a bit cheaper elsewhere)
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They are the switches i use, but i buy them separately. BEP have the annoying practice of linking the two banks (via the yellow switch, which is the same as the other two, just a different knob) using the battery terminals. I't better to link the banks via the load terminals, this way you can isolate a faulty battery and use the emergency switch. They are slightly cheaper separately too.

The link cables are straight forward, just a pair of short cables with 10mm lugs on each end, rather than the BEP link bars.
 
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