Drop that Hook.

[AIDY]

Anyone got any tips on anchoring. How can you be 90% sure that you hooks dug in and your not going to go walkies in the night. What are your techniques ? Do you make a point of buoying the hook ?

Looking forward to your replies.

<hr width=100% size=1>/forums/images/icons/wink.gif <font color=blue> Regards Andy </font color=blue>

 

[Robin]

90% sure isn't enough!

Our method is to select our spot, if the bottom is visible look for a patch clear of weed, stop the boat over the spot and lower the anchor smartly to the bottom, then give a gentle nudge astern to start the boat moving back whilst paying out the required chain length. Allow the boat to settle back onto the anchor and GENTLY appy some astern to help it dig in, the boat should swing around and straighten the chain, then GRADUALLY increase the revs until you are really putting some efort into it, whilst watching a mark (like another boat or buoy) against the background to detect any dragging. If the anchor will hold full astern applied like that it should be secure, but don't take a run at it as some do, the jerk load will break the anchor out. Finally use a snubber, we use a 12mm nylon line with a rubber (gondolastic?) snubber spiralled in it, it fits with a chain hook onto the chain and is set across a slack loop in the chain so it absorbs any movement from gusts of wind and prevents any jerks on the chain.

If room to anchor is restricted, let out more chain than the minimum whilst setting the anchor, then pull back in to no less than 3 times the depth. If expecting really bad weather then you must let out more chain, chain does nothing useful in the locker!

Try to avoid wind against tide when picking your spot since the combination can result in a lot more load on the system, especially if you get sideways across the wind. As someone else said in a different post, we once many years back had a nylon warp wrap itself around the keel in wind over tide, the back edge of the keel sawed through it in minutes! We now use all chain (we carry 200ft of 10mm).

We do not routinely use a tripping line either buoyed or not, IMO they can cause more problems than they prevent. However we do carry a made up tripping line and buoy for places known to have a foul bottom, especially cables or old mooring chains. If you do use a buoyed line, make sure there is (just) enough line for the expected HW depth and also put a weight on the line about 2m or so down to keep the line sunk clear of prop, rudder and keel - we use a torpedo lead fishing weight for this.

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[snowleopard]

you will need to try various options to work out what is best for your anchor and boat. we used to power-set ours and frequently had to re-lay because it dragged. now we know that it's best to let wind and tide set it and it almost never drags. (it's a delta - others report the same experience).

we monitor our position for a while and set the gps anchor drag alarm to .05m radius (less in shallow water)

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[Robin]

We used a CQR for years and years and always power set it, our current boat (now starting our 3rd season) came with a Delta which we have also always reversed in and (touch teak) have never dragged it. I'm so far a big fan of the Delta, how who what is the story behind the 'let it set itself' method, does that relate to a specific bottom type??

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[boatless]

I'm in agreement with Robin, but will add a bit.

I let out the depth, minus say a metre, while deciding where to put it. Then when decided, let it down to the bottom and try to run the chain at the same speed as the boat is drifting back. (You can see the speed by watching the specks in the water). Main error in anchoring is to drop a pile of chain on top of the anchor! Then slowly build reverse to full power, while watching transits as decribed by Robin.

However, if it's an overnight, I do make a full speed bounce (by motoring fowards to the 'opposite' side of the swinging circle and then going flat out backwards) to make sure, and have not had many occasions where this pulls it out.

I'll only do this with a minimum of five times depth paid out though - slightly selfishly, I treat this as a minimum, having read an article somewhere a few years ago.

Lastly, I'm a Fortress anchor fan.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.

 

[jerryat]

Hi Robin!

Yep! We're almost exactly of your views. However, we believe that it is better to allow the anchor to 'set' on it's own for circa 5 minutes (though this depends on the wind/tide/proximity of other boats of course!) before applying power astern.

Once we have ensured that the anchor is burying ok, we always use full astern, though NOT, as you correctly state, 'at a run'!

Especially agree re the use of a tripping line. Far more trouble than they're worth IMHO, and yes, 90% is at least 10% short of good enough!

I guess most would like to be able to 'see' the bottom before dropping the hook, but as we all know, it ain't very often possible in this country - great in the Med and elsewhere though. If your own local knnowledge doesn't guide you, the location of other boats probablty will.

Good sailing!



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[AIDY]

Thanks chaps some useful infomation there. I'm with you on most of your techniques and agree 90% sure is not good enough. As a rule i put out 4 times depth out at HW for chain. Always very unsure of tide / wind changes in the night, I never sleep well at anchor and have to take a look that we are not swinging too close to others, and the hook has not pulled out as we swung on the tide change.

On previous boats we could never get the boat to settle (It always went walkies) prehaps wrong size anchor/ technique, but on current boat (touch wood) no problems. Have never used a buoy to mark anchor and had been weighting up the pros and cons.

Happy sailing.

<hr width=100% size=1>/forums/images/icons/wink.gif <font color=blue> Regards Andy </font color=blue>

 

[AlexL]

when you say "lower the anchor to the bottom" and then paying out the required chain length - how are you controlling this? by hand? or by snubbing the chain with a rope to slow it? or with some other method?

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[Robin]

I think we both do the same in practice, we start the stern walk with a momentary touch of engine then lay the chain as we go, eventually snub the chain and wait for it to straighten and initially set, and only then start the reverse-in revs. Had some friends way back who could never get their anchor to set, she would go flat out forwards or backwards to his hand signals and the poor anchor never stood a chance. On one occasion it was so frustrating to watch I swam over and did it for them - they had a similar size boat and identical gear!

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[jleaworthy]

There's already much excellent advice in this thread. I would simply add that you might consider mooring your boat particularly if concerned with possible problems with wind or tide change. The easiest way to moor is to let out at least twice the amount of chain that you need, drop your second anchor preferably on chain and warp, middle up between the anchors securing the warp of the second anchor to your main chain with a rolling hitch. Finally put out more chain so that rolling hitch and warp are well below your keel. It's not as difficult as it sounds and considerably easier with a power windlass!

I'm sure others can pass on experience of using a "running moor" - much quicker to carry out but more problematical for a small crew.

Only drawback of mooring is that you swinging circle will be much smaller than that of surrounding boats.

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[Robin]

On earlier boats it was by hand but we fitted an electric windlass on our last boat and have one also on our current one. We lower the anchor with the windlass under power (we don't simply release the gypsy and let the chain run), it isn't hard work for the windlass or by hand because it isn't under load until you stop the chain going out, either by taking a turn on a deck cleat or stopping the windlass. By the way NEVER jerk load the chain on a windlass it can break the drive shaft, a steady pull though is fine. This is another reason to use a snubbing line once all is set to transfer the chain load onto a deck cleat and off the windlass.

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[steve_cronin]

AND (more likely) it'll bend the woodruff key so that you can't get the clutch cones or gipsy off when you need to.

I did like your initial response though. Too many people just chuck the hook out with a load of cable and hope for the best.

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[Robin]

French style! Drop a heap of chain about equal to current depth, plus an extra couple of metres (or a bit of chain + warp) on top of a tiddly anchor and disembark all 6 crew in an AX2 for the shore within 10 minutes of arriving! The whole procedure is often supervised by the dog who will alternate between the helmsman and the 5 foredeck crew...

Mind you we once watched a French motorsailer dig in 2 anchors off the bow AND then do a quick dive with snorkel & mask to check both anchors were properly set. Very impressive - maybe he had seen a different forecast? All the crew went ashore, no change there then, but 2hrs later they came back, lifted the anchors and off they went!

When we anchor in France we always try to anchor clear of the locals and especially not downwind of one where a Vent Solaire might come from in S Brittany. They are a bit better these days but their anchoring skills still are nothing like as good as their sailing skills.

With sincere apologies to all my French friends (and Alain of Spade fame if he's still about on the forums).

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[Mirelle]

Why add to global warming?

I may as well disagree; it would be dull if we all agreed.

OK - boat - 12 ton gaff cutter. Bower anchor - 45lb CQR and 45 fathoms of 7/16"(11mm) chain. Cruising area - UK east coast.

I very seldom anchor under power, and if I have anchored under sail I don't want to start the engine just to dig the anchor in.

The very traditional approach to anchoring, which really goes back to wooden ships, hemp cables and Fisherman anchors, is to luff to a dead stop, lower the anchor and then pay out chain as the boat is set down by wind and current, snubbing it at the desired point.

This is not an ideal approach for modern, lightweight, high holding power anchors, which will dig themselves in with a strain on the cable, unlike the Fisherman which digs in with its own weight on the lower fluke.

So, anchoring under sail with a CQR and chain I usually try to drop the anchor when we still have some forward way on - not too much, obviously - and snub the chain to dig it in. The anchor seems not to mind being dug in facing the "wrong" way. After all, it will be the "right" way when the tide turns. Equally, I am not too bothered about tipping a pile of chain over right after the anchor - a CQR unlike a Fisherman cannot be fouled with a turn round the upper fluke, so there is not much danger in doing this. The boat will pull the chain out along the bottom, losing way as she does so, and then snatch the anchor in.

I do not use an anchor buoy; the Hiscock method of retrieving a fouled CQR (use a short loop of chain shackled round the chain of the foul anchor, secured to a warp - drop it down the up-and -down chain, slack off, haul on the warp!) has worked , so far. I suppose one day it won't, but I've chalked up 33 years to date without leaving a CQR on the bottom - I did contribute a Danforth to the bed of the Deben when it bit a ground chain and would not let go - I could get the thing in view but could not free it!

I have given up mooring with two anchors; it is a recipe for a first class tangle and, if you are expecting a blow, it makes more sense to me to have the second anchor ready to drop underfoot rather than already laid.

In particular, I think that "running moors" are best left for the writers of textbooks. In my case, it's just paint and varnish that get damaged, but for most people it would be gelcoat, which is more serious!

In the same vein, I find 3 times the depth at HW is quite adequate - more chain that that, in today's crowded anchorages, is a potential recipe for fending off in pyjamas at 0200! If Im need to veer more chain, I can easily do so.

There is a curious belief that lots of chain will always improve holding. This is actually not so - it is the catenary that counts. If your chain is lying along the bottom in shoal water and it really comes on to blow you will drag because there is negligible catenary and she will snatch at the anchor. Once a boat snatches at an anchor the shock loads become very much higher, and either the anchor will drag or the cable will part.

It is better to use a weight on the chain, but again this can be a recipe for a tangle. If the weight(s) have about six feet of line between them and the shackle, it is easier to manage things - you can fit the slider round the chain first then bend on the weights on the foredeck and drop them over. Use a boathook to get them back.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mirelle on 17/05/2004 13:14 (server time).</FONT></P>