Dredging? So how does that help?

boatone said:
No disagreement from me over that but, in the current climate, the best we can expect is that depths in the fairway (the middle third as the EA define it) are maintained as per the declared depths in each stretch. The EA clearly take the view that depths bankside, i.e. outside the fairway, are the responsibility of the riparian owners. I don't give much/any hope for change in that policy unless there is a really major seed change in attitudes to the Thames as a public waterway with major new income from whatever source, be it public or private.
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The current climate arguably supports dredging as something that can be done to reduce the impact of the floods and we should be supporting it and if we boaters benefit so much the better. Money is being fund to address flooding issues. I think the EA are working to a 5 year plan to reduce the shoals left over from last years winter and if that doesn't change levels will be a serious ongoing problem this summer. Can you confirm what plans/timescale the EA currently has to reduce shoals?
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAiOhKh5-Bk Euan Larcombe has worked ceaselessly on the problems created by the Environment Agency's policy to cease dredging. Drains and sewers are rarely discussed in polite conversation. Out of sight and out of mind is how we prefer to keep them. And when it comes to public spending on them, who wants more of that? In reality despite repeated flooding events, only the minority who have received the sewage and floodwater from those living up the hill.
 
Aquafan said:
Can you confirm what plans/timescale the EA currently has to reduce shoals?
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I can't confirm anything but I do know that a major exercise to identify shoals as well as overhanging trees has been carried out fairly recently. However, my information is that work will only be done subject to funding being available and there is clearly a long list of priorities.

I think there is a very good chance that at least some highly visible dredging work will now be carried out to "appease" the flood issues. To what extent that will benefit boaters remains to be seen. I do have a fear that political expediency to be "seen to be doing something" might result in shedloads of money being thrown at dredging work that may actually do little to solve the real problem.

Longer term it remains to be seen if this year is a 1 in 50 exceptional flooding event. Memories fade quickly and unless the extension to the Jubilee or some other comparable scheme extending downriver is approved and underway quickly the sense of urgency may well be lost as other issues take over government priorities.
 
boatone said:
..The EA clearly take the view that depths bankside, i.e. outside the fairway, are the responsibility of the riparian owners. ...
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Not only do the E.A. wash their hands of areas owned by riparian owners but they create hurdles for those owners wishing to carry out maintenance work. Of course it is very often the case that riparian owners don't realise that they are. Equally well, the retired old lady or young family unknowingly owning parts of a watercourse are not well placed to finance that necessary maintenance. In Scotland bylaws have been used to permit local authorities to take responsibility but elsewhere insurers are the financial body involved by home-owners and that only following failure resulting in downstream flooding.
 
Let’s face it, the middle third is a convenient excuse not to have to do the entire river, but they can't even do that to their own standards
They used to clear rivers that weren’t even navigable, now they are left to choke up with silt and reed beds.
They promised to clear under the bridge of my home town to improve flow but left it..yet again
 
prof pat pending said:
Let’s face it, the middle third is a convenient excuse not to have to do the entire river, but they can't even do that to their own standards They used to clear rivers that weren’t even navigable, now they are left to choke up with silt and reed beds.
They promised to clear under the bridge of my home town to improve flow but left it..yet again
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Just when will everyone accept and realise that the EA is not the master of its own destiny. Its budget is effectively outside its own control and they simply do not have the funding they require to meet our aspirations.
I am involved in the Customer Charter discussions and we have been unable to agree the Charter for this coming year as we are still waiting to hear exactly what their budget for management and maintenance will be for 2014. Further cuts in grant in aid of up to £1million or possibly even more have been indicated and, frankly, that puts the whole service level under the microscope. We may know more after the next TNUF meeting early next month.
If you must attack somebody start attacking the Treasury and Defra who effectively decide how much cash the EA will receive. Also bearing in mind that, as far as navigation is concerned, our licence fees contribute well under 50% - the rest is public purse.
 
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prof pat pending said:
I both accept and realise that, but did they fight hard enough for the budget they needed to perform, or were they too busy blowing funds on bird sanctuaries?
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The only honest answer I can give you is "I don't know".
However, I can tell you that I have sat in meetings with senior EA Thames managers and I have made it clear that we license payers need and expect them to vigorously fight our corner in the battles for a share of the pot.
There are, I am sure, many schemes that have included some provision for environmental improvements. I know that the Jubilee River scheme made wildlife habitat part of the project. I believe one of the Somerset Levels Flood Relief projects included leaving abandoned land as a nature reserve. There may be some environment specific projects including bird sanctuaries and the like but implementing government policy is part of the EA's role and I doubt very much that they have been arbitrarily able to decide to spend big ticket money for such schemes on their own say so.
 
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boatone said:
It was proposed that a similar scheme would extend eventually all the way down to Teddington. If THAT had been implemented then there really would have been major relief for those now suffering so much downstream of Windsor.
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Where on earth would you put it? The current section of the Jubilee River is in fairly open land, but that kinda stops once you get past Shepperton.
 
boatone said:
Just when will everyone accept and realise that the EA is not the master of its own destiny. Its budget is effectively outside its own control and they simply do not have the funding they require to meet our aspirations.
I am involved in the Customer Charter discussions and we have been unable to agree the Charter for this coming year as we are still waiting to hear exactly what their budget for management and maintenance will be for 2014. Further cuts in grant in aid of up to £1million or possibly even more have been indicated and, frankly, that puts the whole service level under the microscope. We may know more after the next TNUF meeting early next month.
If you must attack somebody start attacking the Treasury and Defra who effectively decide how much cash the EA will receive. Also bearing in mind that, as far as navigation is concerned, our licence fees contribute well under 50% - the rest is public purse.
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Nope, Dave has said that "Money is no object"
 
prof pat pending said:
..... now they are left to choke up with silt and reed beds.
They promised to clear under the bridge of my home town to improve flow but left it..yet again
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The coastal spend has been substantial following the December surge but the trouble began when shadow environment minister Anne McIntosh was elected late and her brief was given to Caroline Spelman who settled early and took a substantial spending cut. Richard Benyon replaced her when she couldn't continue but was in a poor position although he performed very well. The present incumbent, Owen Patterson, has adopted a media policy of proudly re-iterating the number of homes that have been protected from flooding instead of acknowledging that some areas have been repeatedly flooded. That approach gives no confidence, particularly to those who have been flooded. They planted reeds in the river bed here. They are the clean and green Environment Agency. Fortunately the river bed is rock and the reeds were swept out to sea with the rest of the debris in the 2008 flood.
 
apollo said:
Nope, Dave has said that "Money is no object"
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He said money was no object for the cleanup operation. I.e. councils can claim all their costs back.

He said nothing about post flood repairs, EA staff, further flood defence work etc.
 
Dredging helps by allowing the government to say "OK, we're doing something!". Next year, when it still floods, it allows them to say "OK, we told you it wouldn't make any difference!"
 
st599 said:
He said money was no object for the cleanup operation. I.e. councils can claim all their costs back.

He said nothing about post flood repairs, EA staff, further flood defence work etc.
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Every time you turn the news on this week, there is something about dredging, if Dave doesn't actually do any dredging after all this - the peasants will be even more revolting!
 
On the Thames is there any dredging machinery still in operation ? Here on the Severn, dredging is something which is long overdue yet they sold off all the dredgers years ago, so the lack of machinery would be our first hurdle if the Severn had the approval for dredging - though i wouldn't bet on it getting approval.
 
sharpness said:
On the Thames is there any dredging machinery still in operation ? Here on the Severn, dredging is something which is long overdue yet they sold off all the dredgers years ago, so the lack of machinery would be our first hurdle if the Severn had the approval for dredging - though i wouldn't bet on it getting approval.
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Same here all sold off years ago
 
apollo said:
Same here all sold off years ago
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Sounds like your in the same situation then, and sort of puts the dredging debate of will they or won't they to bed, as without the machinery it's a non-starter.
When i was last in the boating game from 1985 to 1997 there was maintenance works aplenty including regular dredging. So you can imagine my surprise having returned to boating in 2012 to find more boats and therefore more money in the system than ever, and yet maintenance is non-existent. I can only assume this same crazy logic is applied to the Thames aswell.
 
teddington_lock said:
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Leisure/Study_area_and_key_features.pdf
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Yep, the last bit is Shepperton.

Given the controversy about where the current channel ends and the effect on the area immediately downstream, the people of Staines might not be too happy about a relief channel finishing just upstream.

I'd be concerned that most of what a relief channel protects is flood plain. For all the hype about the Thames floods, for the most part it's empty meadows that are under water.
 
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