Dragging of anchors

[Artic Warrior]

The spade is what all my contemplating has boiled down to.
I don't like anchors with roll bars because they could collect mud and rocks and not reset after turning.
The tip on the spade is 50% of the weight.
The shank is hollow making it very strong and not too weighted.
So im actually mid flow of manufacture from 800 mpa metal and making one,
But my shank comes up through the bottom, so definitely cant come out,,,,,though I know they don't anyway,,,,
I do like the little yellow bit they put on it,,,,but I wont as that's breeeeching copy right, Right !!

I use a Spade (NW Scotland) and have found that it cuts through the kelp easily, but when I lift it in the morning, as well as kelp coming up I want to see mud on the shanks, that way I know I've successfully cut through the kelp and dug it into the mud.

 

[Neeves]

Why they never replaced the hollow shank with one built from 800MPa steel, or stronger - another of life's mysteries. Why they never made it 'T' shaped and coming up from the base (as in the demountable alloy Excel) another mystery. Finally they could have sharpened up the toe. Opportunities missed.

I understand the Vulcan is a solid machined shank, though have no idea what it is made from.

Jonathan

 

[Artic Warrior]

I presume they use the hollow shank to keep the weight towards the tip more
An a little more of a point is install me thinks.
But its not the complete answer as most fail on weed/kelp and the good old fishermans work well in those conditions.
I watch Gullets in Turkey and they only use a fishermans and they don't seem to have problems,,,,
Yes in high winds the fishermans flukes struggle to grip the sand.
But that's why some of us carry 2 or 3 anchors for different bottoms hey

Why they never replaced the hollow shank with one built from 800MPa steel, or stronger - another of life's mysteries. Why they never made it 'T' shaped and coming up from the base (as in the demountable alloy Excel) another mystery. Finally they could have sharpened up the toe. Opportunities missed.

I understand the Vulcan is a solid machined shank, though have no idea what it is made from.

Jonathan

 

[adwuk]

Why they never made it 'T' shaped and coming up from the base (as in the demountable alloy Excel) another mystery.

For us, the detachable shank was a key feature. It means that we can leave it connected to the chain, but allows us to quickly disassemble the anchor so that it fits in the 35lb CQR shaped anchor locker. Removing the pin and shank and putting the anchor away takes about the same time as it did to stow the old anchor. If the shank was T shaped, we would have to detach the chain as well.

 

[NormanS]

Sailing in Northwest Scotland, I avoid anchoring in weed if at all possible. There are few places where there is growing kelp (tangle), where anyone in their right mind would choose to anchor, but there are many anchorages which have weed lying on the bottom, which has come in from rocks outside. Places like Canna come to mind, but even there the patches of weed can be avoided with care.

I carry a 20kg Fisherman anchor, but it is very seldom used, being the third choice after (genuine) Bruce and Fortress.
I still think that the choice of bottom is of more consequence than whichever anchor happens to be fashionable, and my favourite bottom is good clean mud.

 

[ribrage]

Sailing in Northwest Scotland, I avoid anchoring in weed if at all possible. There are few places where there is growing kelp (tangle), where anyone in their right mind would choose to anchor, but there are many anchorages which have weed lying on the bottom, which has come in from rocks outside. Places like Canna come to mind, but even there the patches of weed can be avoided with care.

I carry a 20kg Fisherman anchor, but it is very seldom used, being the third choice after (genuine) Bruce and Fortress.
I still think that the choice of bottom is of more consequence than whichever anchor happens to be fashionable, and my favourite bottom is good clean mud.

Our home port is Bristol - best mud on the planet - anchor goes so far in you cant get it out - 15 meter tidal ranges - best place on the planet for an anchoring apprenticeship - our move to the med has meant adapting practices to suit.

 

[Artic Warrior]

Im from ilfracombe
I second the sand mud,,,,sticky stuff

Our home port is Bristol - best mud on the planet - anchor goes so far in you cant get it out - 15 meter tidal ranges - best place on the planet for an anchoring apprenticeship - our move to the med has meant adapting practices to suit.

 

[Artic Warrior]

Its got to be an ULTRA then,

But too blingy for me

 

[adwuk]

Its got to be an ULTRA then,

But too blingy for me

You'd have to polish it of course, and lots of nice matching accessories too...

 

[Sybarite]

To which the answers appear to be (a) maybe and (b) no.

Above I gave the reference to a test by the French magazine Voile. However I remember (IIRC) a comparative test by another French magazine where the main (Spade, Rocna) NG anchors dragged at over 2000kg pull whereas the CQR dragged at less than 400kg. in the same conditions. It had by far the worst results of any anchor in the test and the irony was it was also the most expensive. I resolved then that any new boat I had would have one of the best. The difference in price is peanuts when spread across the life of the anchor and also in relation to the value of the boat and one's peace of mind.

 

[lw395]

Above I gave the reference to a test by the French magazine Voile. However I remember (IIRC) a comparative test by another French magazine where the main (Spade, Rocna) NG anchors dragged at over 2000kg pull whereas the CQR dragged at less than 400kg. in the same conditions. It had by far the worst results of any anchor in the test and the irony was it was also the most expensive. I resolved then that any new boat I had would have one of the best. The difference in price is peanuts when spread across the life of the anchor and also in relation to the value of the boat and one's peace of mind.

But 400kg pull will hold a pretty big boat in a full gale.
Those numbers sound typical of tests that don't relate to the real problems people have.

 

[30boat]

The spade is what all my contemplating has boiled down to.
I don't like anchors with roll bars because they could collect mud and rocks and not reset after turning.
The tip on the spade is 50% of the weight.
The shank is hollow making it very strong and not too weighted.
So im actually mid flow of manufacture from 800 mpa metal and making one,
But my shank comes up through the bottom, so definitely cant come out,,,,,though I know they don't anyway,,,,
I do like the little yellow bit they put on it,,,,but I wont as that's breeeeching copy right, Right !!

I've recently made a cross between a Spade and an Ultra with a solid shank. Don't really see the point of a hollow shank.I even think that a top heavy shank helps the tip to dig in as it forces it down.At least that's what I observed. My anchor sets incredibly quickly and holds much better than my Rocna (also a copy) in soft mud.I'm now in the process of making a bigger and faithful copy of an Ultra ,apart from the shank that will be solid and reinforced,because I need something substantial until I can go back to my mooring when the dredging work ends.

 

[Delfin]

I've recently made a cross between a Spade and an Ultra with a solid shank. Don't really see the point of a hollow shank.I even think that a top heavy shank helps the tip to dig in as it forces it down.At least that's what I observed. My anchor sets incredibly quickly and holds much better than my Rocna (also a copy) in soft mud.I'm now in the process of making a bigger and faithful copy of an Ultra ,apart from the shank that will be solid and reinforced,because I need something substantial until I can go back to my mooring when the dredging work ends.

That's amazing.

 

[lw395]

That's amazing.

Around here, you'd need to stand anchor watch or someone would pinch it!

 

[Robin]

But 400kg pull will hold a pretty big boat in a full gale.
Those numbers sound typical of tests that don't relate to the real problems people have.

I remember that article also and at the time commented how they picked out a specific result and headlined it. IIRC the CQR had some good test results over several 'runs' and some bad but the bad were listed the good shrugged off. Spade being French designed and made of course was heaped with editorial praise. At the time I bought and readthe article we were happily and firmly anchored in Brittany on a 45lb genuine CQR even after a very boisterous vent solaire at 3 am off Houat that blew straight onshore with a nasty swell to boot, taking several French boats mostly with 'Brittany' toothpicks up onto the beach, .

ANchor testing is a black art and seems to fail because consistent and identical substrates and pull conditions seem impossible to achieve and often the tested anchors are not the same size or weight.

I don't doubt the new gen stuff is good but am not in such a hurry to dismiss what has served many people well for many years. Too much stuff is anecdotal, tests are often scientifically incomplete as in missing some bottoms and some sizes of some anchors or uses copies sometimes not originals. I make my own judgements and sleep well at night even without a phone App by my ear, With luck I will continue to get away with it until my personal boat drops over the edge of the world, at which time I expect the arguments will still be running and boats dragging.

 

[30boat]

That's amazing.

Very kind of you to say so

 

[Artic Warrior]

Nice job young man,,,I see the shank is flat bar with additional wrapped around the top reinforcing it.

Did you weight the tip with lead like the ULTRA company do....or just layup thicker metal from the shank to the tip.

Nice I like it,,,,

I've recently made a cross between a Spade and an Ultra with a solid shank. Don't really see the point of a hollow shank.I even think that a top heavy shank helps the tip to dig in as it forces it down.At least that's what I observed. My anchor sets incredibly quickly and holds much better than my Rocna (also a copy) in soft mud.I'm now in the process of making a bigger and faithful copy of an Ultra ,apart from the shank that will be solid and reinforced,because I need something substantial until I can go back to my mooring when the dredging work ends.

 

[blackbeard]

.......taking several French boats mostly with 'Brittany' toothpicks up onto the beach, .

ANchor testing is a black art and seems to fail because consistent and identical substrates and pull conditions seem impossible to achieve and often the tested anchors are not the same size or weight.

........

Having been a bit involved in an number of field trials in my time (not involving anchors) I will second this.

Any decent field trial will repeat the measurements a number of times for any given condition (actually slightly more complicated than that but you get the idea). For instance you would need about, say, five measurements in any condition (more if possible) to get not only an average value but also some idea of the spread of results. How consistent is that result? Then you have all the other variables, scope, chain vs chain+rope, what happens if the direction of pull changes? - as well, of course, as substrate. To make it even more difficult, we are not interested so much in average values as in what happens in the unusual (we hope) event when the anchor fails to hold well. And then there are all the different anchor types we want to test. On top of which, some anchor types are reputed to hold better in the larger sizes. Also there may be a difference in holding power depending on whether the force is applied suddenly (by a large powerful motor boat) or more gradually (as might more probably happen in practice). I'm not aware of any tests which give comparative values (for various substrates etc) I can rely on; in practice tests seem to vary from interesting and informative on the one extreme, to completely worthless and best disregarded on the other, but even the best tests cannot completely settle the arguments (as you will have noticed).

So the answer is to get what we can from the best tests (and bin results from the others) but rely mainly on experience of what works and what doesn't. We have the accounts of many yachtsmen who have anchored very many times on various substrates and in various circumstances using a wide variety of anchors (and of yachts); why is why this thread is so useful.

(And I thought I might muddy the waters a little. I use a Britany anchor (mainly because it's the only one that fits my anchor locker): it works for me ...

 

[30boat]

Nice job young man,,,I see the shank is flat bar with additional wrapped around the top reinforcing it.

Did you weight the tip with lead like the ULTRA company do....or just layup thicker metal from the shank to the tip.

Nice I like it,,,,

Thanks
There's lead at the tip.Easy enough to do.I heated the tip with a blowtorch for a while and then poured a pot full of molten lead.Leather jacket,gloves and a full face mask of course.

 

[Delfin]

Above I gave the reference to a test by the French magazine Voile. However I remember (IIRC) a comparative test by another French magazine where the main (Spade, Rocna) NG anchors dragged at over 2000kg pull whereas the CQR dragged at less than 400kg. in the same conditions. It had by far the worst results of any anchor in the test and the irony was it was also the most expensive. I resolved then that any new boat I had would have one of the best. The difference in price is peanuts when spread across the life of the anchor and also in relation to the value of the boat and one's peace of mind.

I think one would be hard pressed to find an anchor test where the CQR didn't finish at or near the bottom. Interesting that they are now so expensive. According to Rex Francis of Anchor Right, one other problem with the CQR is that when the hinge wears, performance goes down more. Not sure why or that it is true, but that is what he says.