Downwind rig for the ARC

zefender

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I'm booked to participate in ARC2005, taking my Bav40 (no jokes about whether we might therefore arrive in time for ARC2006, but in pieces!) This might be walk in the park for some of the old salts here, but it's a first for me, so pay attention at the back!

I'm going through the shopping list of stuff I need. The boat is pretty well equipped but there are a few issues outstanding. One of the main ones was power, but I think I've settled on a duogen plus a flexi solar panel on the bimini as backup (with engine as a third of course).

The thing which I'm less certain about is the rig. There'll be 4 on board but only 2 'experienced' crew so a spinnaker is unlikely to be used, certainly not at night.

Option 1 The existing forestay has a twin groove furlex. I could just get another sail and stick it on here and sail twin headsail (with 1, maybe 2 poles) most of the way. Advantages: Simple to do, reasonably cheap. Disadvantages: Reliance on the strength of the forestay with twice the sail area. Bav reckon is "should" be OK, but I have my doubts. If the forestay pulls out, I'm a bit knackered really.

Option 2: Twistle rig on single forestay (I'm told a lighterweight sail in the double groove means it can be rolled away with the 'normal' genoa). Advantages: twistle meant to dramatiucally reduce rolling motion and still reasonably simple to do. Disadvantages: Still reliant on one forestay, buying kit I might not use again, concern about taking down the twistle rig quickly at night as sqawls come and go.

Option 3: Have a 2nd forestay attached and set a 2nd headsail on this. Advantages: Have a second stay as backup and could use it to set stormsail, probably easier to reduce sails. Disadvantages: Maybe lose rolling benefit of twistle, bit of deckwork needed to fit additional stay.

Option 4 I suppose is the twistle option but with a 2nd forestay (though I'm not sure how well this will work.

I'm also told that a gap between the headsails (as in a 2nd forestay here, on our boat, it'll need to be set some way back) will reduce rolling motion anyway.

Any other options or thoughts by the 'esteemed panel'?
 

snowleopard

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a surprising number use just main + preventer and poled-out genoa. twins are usually set on a separate stay, often with a furler. i didn;t see any evidence of twistle rigs but they may only have been set up once at sea.

the organisers do a survey of rigs used which should be a useful guide.

i can't say what works best as my option isn't open to you (see my picture <- ).

what i can say is that any arrangement must be capable of being reduced v. rapidly as the tradewind squalls are fast and furious and you don't get much warning at night.
 

iangrant

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Looks like we will be crossing together then mate - I've twin head sails planned with maybe no main up dead downwind, yet to try it out..

What are your plans for getting to the start?

Ian
 

zefender

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Be leaving Falmouth end July for a quickish run to Cascais and then, proably via Lagos early Sept to Las Palmas.
Fellow forumite Stiknstring (also with a Bav40) did it with twins and no mainsail, pretty much all the way.
 

dom

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I don't think that two headsails should be an issue at all. There will probably be more tension on your forestay upwind with a lot of backstay tension on. This is a relaxed rig and great for night sailing.

How far back are your backstay is swept? You might consider extra spreader patches with additional kevlar reinforcement at the turning points at the spreader ends. Otherwise chaffe will be a problem.

Before adding a second forestay you will need to consider runners. Mast manufacturers will be able to advise.
 

AlexL

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Can't speak from experience, but I went to the WCC atlantic circuit forum at LIBS and the general consensus was the prevented main and poled out genny was most peoples prefferred option. Alot of people where also talking about the new spinnaker type thing with some sort of openning flap in the front and a construction rather like the rectangular sports parachutes, which was much more stable as it generated a different lift component.
Another comment made was that as the ARC is timed to get to the carribean by Xmas, it is not actually the 'best' time to cross and the trades may not be fully established - you could spend a fortune on a twizzle rig and end up sailing upwind for a proportion of the crossing!
I'm very envious and hope you enjoy it. Are you doing a full Atlantic Ciruit?
 

zefender

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I've looked at the kite/spinny thing - it looks great fun but it's an expensive beast. The prevented main + genoa is OK but, as Dom points out, I'll then have chafe probs I suspect and maybe a bit of wear on the gooseneck. Sadly not doing the full circuit, hoping to have the boat return as freight.
 

Sea Devil

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What fatipa suggests is the rig I always cross the Atlantic with - Crossed the pacific with - so easy to set up - the two gennies do not have to match exactly - easy to dump one sail if it blows up and the main stays stowed except in really light winds when you want every bit of canvas up -
Certainly it does put some extra pressure on the back stay but not more than a large spinnaker so even a Bravaria should stand up to it!!!! smile... I could not in fact furl my roller genny as it caught up in the spinnaker halyard which I used to set up the 2nd genny - by the way the gap between the two headsails is very small once you have sweated up the halyard
 

dom

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BTW you need to make sure what poles you are using on a twin foresail rig as big sails set much better with a pole. Two poles might need an extra mast attachment. Also fully train the crew and test the mast fittings with dual sail - or indeed single sail - and take spares for this. For example I have seen several instances with poled out sails where the pole has been pulled too far back and damaged the mast fittings.
 

Talulah

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Can I ask where you looked into the Parachute Kites? I too was at the WCC Arc presentation at LBS and the views of the panel was interesting. The one guy who was sailing thousands of miles a year, had done more crossings than hot dinners etc certainly swore by the Para/Kite. One of its big advantages being that the same sail could cope with very light conditions through to much heavier conditions without any need for a sail change. He was not very impressed with twin headsails poled out.
I would like to know how much these Para/Kites cost.
He also made some very interesting comments on other equipment.
 

dom

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I think he should definitely get one of these. That way should there be a nasty squall we can wave at them at 35000ft on our way back from the Carribean!
 

StellaGirl

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I sailed a 60ft'er on ARC 2003 with 3 other people. We did solo watches and flew the kite day and night. Most of the time we had no problems and squalls can "generally" be tracked on radar. However we were caught out once (on my watch I have to admit!). Although the wind speed never went above 30kts and the squall only lasted a few seconds, the clew got caught in the emergency steering gear which was strapped to the shrouds....doh! Still, it only tore the clew out and that was easily repaired.
Not sure I would recommend flying a kite with solo watches again on a boat that size.....unless you were practised in getting the b****rd thing down on your own in a hurry....or in the racing division.
Pole out your head sail if your not in a hurry...
 

Spacewaist

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Damaged mast fittings

I did my first Transat with a poled out Genny and main with preventer. Spinnaker pole attached to mast track via sliding Selden RCB car. Poled out too far so the thrust was almost perpendicular to the boats head. Before we got to the Caribbean the Recycling balls were rolling around the deck.

Ever since then I have used Fatipa's rig but with the pole further forward controlling the smaller headsail, using the boom to deal with the 135% genoa.

The only problem with it is if you decide you have to head up e.g. to get above a squall it's a bit of a palaver undoing the knitting.
 
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