Dolphin Sails

[Strathglass]

I looked at all those when I bought my sails. I ended up with Kemps and they were very good. There was a small problem because of an understandable error which they made, but they sorted it out qucikly and very efficiently. For me the test of a company is how it handles a problem and, on that basis, they were superb.
They also gave me excellent advice which meant that I ended up with better sails than I would have had using my initial specification.

I would vouch for Kemp.

My sails were made by Hood quite a few years before I first required to used them. In this country Hood sails are now handled by Kemp.

The sails need quite extensive alterations from the standard configuration they were originally manufactured to. On the genoa I required a different luff foil, added foam luff, alterations to foot and on the main another reef and changes to the foot.

I had the changes done over a period of time as three seperate jobs.

Every change was done precisely as I requested. They arranged the carrier to pick up the sails each time the next day after just one phone call.

I live in Central Scotland and their prices were 30% less than those quoted by the sail repair company in the local marina.

Also, it was impossible to see where the changes had been made as their workmanship was outstanding.

Iain

 

[Koeketiene]

Dolphin - a different perspective

Very sorry to hear about your problems. Some stuff seems strangely familiar.
We also bought a new suit of Dolphin sails for Guapa last year. Our story goes like this:

When I asked Dolphin to send someone round the measure us up it was racing season in the Caribbean, and their regular man - Jon Strumer - was out there delivering some sails for Mr Matthews.
Along came Matthew Vincent - the guvnor - did his stuff, we discussed what I wanted, how I wanted it done, etc... Matthew gave me his card and left - a quote would be in the mail soon.

Received the quote from Jon Strumer a week later. Strangely enough the 3rd reefing point I wanted had disappeared. And instead of the 4 battens (2 full - 2 short) I wanted we were down to 3 battens (1 full - 2 short).
Mailed John, and got a rather stroppy reply along the lines of: you don't really need a 3rd reef, 4 battens would be too much for the sail area, etc...
Conversation going nowhere.

Now, I may not be the easiest of customers to deal with but, I know what I want and as I'm paying I expect to get what I want. I can be quite vocal when I don't get what I want.

Anyway, at this point I contacted Matthew Vincent and explained the situation to him and asked what he was going to do about it.
From then on, I just dealt with Matthew. One trip, two e-mails and an exchange of CAD files later, we were all on the same hymn sheet.

The sails were delivered on time, on spec and at the price agreed. I am very pleased with them: they set well, preform as expected and are top quality overall.
I also bought a chute and snuffer at the same time. Equally top quality and several hundred pounds cheaper then the next lowest quote I got (Crusader).

Contact Matthew Vincent directly - at some point you have to stop talking to the monkey and start talking to the organ grinder.
Dolphin are by no means at the cheap and cheerful end of the market, but when you are paying for (semi) bespoke sails, you want the service to match.

So, in my experience, Dolphin cut very good sails, but they may have some customer service/relations/communication 'issues'.
Any company wishing to remain in business these days can not afford to trade just on it's reputation/name/badge.

 

[BAtoo]

As mentioned earlier in the thread I have twice had Dolphin quote; both time they never got the buisness because of price/communication. Both times Parker & Kay (then as Quantum) got the job. VV satisfied customer. First time the price was similar to Dolphin, second time it was very comptitive & beat everyone.....

 

[cliff]

I have been a dolphin customer for 20 plus years and have always had great service. No other saimaker I know has attention to detail in aftercare like dolphins. I have sailed hundreds of miles with my sails and the one on one attention I received you cannot find with another group which just ship in all their sails made from the far east all the time. so, some people have had a wayward experience but you can't rely on a few posts when they have very satisfied customers all over the world.

Duh, Let's get this right. in 20 plus years you have sailed hundreds of miles - hmmm do a lot of sailing do you?. With that sort of milage and implied experience we (who sail THOUSANDS of miles each year) really should take notice of your one and only post on these forums but as you say "you can't rely on a few posts", nor a single post.
Personally I would tend to follow the posts of long time members and take note of their experiences over those of a new poster who by his own admission has sailed hundreds of miles in 20 plus years.

 

[FullCircle]

I have been a dolphin customer for 20 plus years and have always had great service. No other saimaker I know has attention to detail in aftercare like dolphins. I have sailed hundreds of miles with my sails and the one on one attention I received you cannot find with another group which just ship in all their sails made from the far east all the time. so, some people have had a wayward experience but you can't rely on a few posts when they have very satisfied customers all over the world.

Dolphin DO ship their sails in from the Far East.
Their one on one service seems to be mainly based around talking to each other in the office.
Or servicing the large yacht manufacturer just up the road, to the detriment of their other non larger yacht maker customers.
You obviously don't know many sailmakers either, because the likes of Wilkinsons and Crusader leave them in their wake in terms of customer service.

But, welcome to the forum, we look forward to your participation in the community.

 

[Koeketiene]

You obviously don't know many sailmakers either, because the likes of Wilkinsons and Crusader leave them in their wake in terms of customer service.

Every loft drops the occasional clanger

Wilkinsons (Burham) made snuffer for Guapa's spinnaker 6 years ago.
Too short, very narrow, got knotted every time.
Took it back but was assured there was nothing wrong with it, did I know how to use it?
During one Channel X-ing, preformed some emergency surgery on it with a racing knife. Couple of hundred down the drain, but I felt a lot better.

When I was shopping for sails talked to Crusader at SIBS. What kind of boat do you have? Kalik 44. Checked on their little laptop. We've got it on our computer. Measurements looked 'off' - they were for the US and Korean builds. Not the Vennekens 44/2 build (only 13 built). We'll just make your sails to the specs we have on file and if it doesn't fit, we'll recut them.
Well, excuse me for being picky, but when I part with a couple of K, I would expect it to fit as delivered and not possibly have to be re-cut later.

 

[myquest]

This is not the sort of thread I like reading when I'm about to order a new main and genoa. Some people seem to have good experience with a sailmaker whilst other have carp time with the same sailmaker.

My current shortlist is
Kemp
Doyle
Arun
Westaway


I now wait for someone to suck their teeth and say they wouldn't use them again!!

Difficult to know who to give your hard earned beer tickets to isn't it?

Suck! That's me sucking my teeth, and as someone in a trade that's renouned for it, I feel I do it well!
I have used one of your short list for many years, but my last experience with them means I am now looking for someone else for this winter's sail servicing. My experience, and having read the whole thread, is that things tend to go wrong if you want something different to the standard/norm. I have a ketch that I have removed the mizzen from. In order to redress the loss of sail area without increasing mast height or changing existing rigging, I had the biggest mainsail made that I could squeeze into the triangle formed by the mast and backstay. Trivial really, but the top full batten shredded to a useless mush on first use, but getting them to agree that this was not much good to me missed them completely. And they seemed to "loose" my sails so that I lost out on early season sailing. I sorted the batten myself in the end, but it seems to me that, as with all work environments, it's a lack of harmony and communication within a company that causes problems. The particular sailmaker I am referring to seems to have entirely different personnel now compared to when I first started using them. To the customer that shouldn't make a blind bit of difference, but unless a company has robust figurehead leading the way, then the minions are running around like headless chickens. I am now looking for a sailmaker with a longstanding leader with a proud reputation to uphold.

 

[doris]

Suck! I am now looking for a sailmaker with a longstanding leader with a proud reputation to uphold.

At least Parker and Kay kept their names on the front page when they were with Quantum and I believe still do now they are hooked up with One Sails. Peter Kay and John Parker would have a major reputational problem should they ever get talked about like Dolphin. Probable why the problem does not arise. They give me a tremendous personal service, top men always available.
Ditto Pete Sanders I suspect.

 

[Habebty]

Sailmakers eh?

Herein this thread lies the problem for sail purchasers, Some sailmakers have very obviously peeed off some of their customers and any potential customers, yet have good feedback from other customers??

Before I part with the best part of £3500 I would like some reassurance I won't be spending next season waiting for sails to be delivered then removing sails for alterations etc etc.

What is the opening gambit I should use when interviewing a prospective sailmaker?

perhaps a Colt 45 tucked in the waistband?
Or a nervous twitch, and audibly complain about "the voices made me do it" ?

Or should I just email them this thread and promise to share my experience with a largish part of the sailing community?

Oh and apologies for hijacking the OPs thread!!!

 

[xyachtdave]

Where would we put North Sails on the quality/price scale?

 

[snooks]

What is the opening gambit I should use when interviewing a prospective sailmaker?

Let them know the type of boat you have, the type of sailing you do, anything specific you'd like draft stripes, extra reefs, triple stitched, foam luff, preferred material - if you know. Some of those will be standard, other will be extra.

Do some research into material, and ask for sailcoth samples. Ask why they use say Dimension Polyant over Bainbridge for example.

Get a written quote from each sail maker. Finding out what's included and what isn't.

These pdf data sheets from http://www.crusadersails.com might help you when it comes to measuring and identifying things like sail slides etc

Sloop data
Measuring guide
Right measurements

 

[Twister_Ken]

Where would we put North Sails on the quality/price scale?

I went with North. Very pleased with service (which has included a couple of trips out on the boat for trimming tips). Price was towards the top of the range for Dacron but not daft with boat show discounts thrown in. The Arcona agent, who was bit iffy about me ordering Dacron not laminate was VERY pleasantly surprised when he sailed with them. And the boat goes well with them. The agent thinks it because it's a great design, North think it's because they are great sails, I know it's because my wife is good at steering (yes, dear, you are).

 

[DanTribe]

I guess we should all speak as we find.
I have bought 6 sails from Dolphin in 12 years, so a regular rather than a major customer. I have always been pleased with the quality of the sails,they were certainly fast and the service is usually good. There has been minor problems on 2 occasions but these have been sorted quickly and satisfactorily after discussion with people at the loft.
Some of the posts here make them sound like the Devil incarnate which I believe is unfair. I will be happy to use them again if I ever get the pennies together.

 

[sailorman]

I guess we should all speak as we find.
I have boat 6 sails from Dolphin in 12 years, so a regular rather than a major customer. I have always been pleased with the quality of the sails, certainly fast and the service is usually good. There has been minor problems on 2 occasions but these have been sorted quickly and satisfactorily after discussion with people at the loft.
Some of the posts here make them sound like the Devil incarnate which I believe is unfair. I will be happy to use them again if I ever get the pennies together.

The OP is complaining of poor comms that then led to sails being made to the wrong sail plan followed by a gross Lack of Comms from the management

 

[DanTribe]

The OP is complaining of poor comms that then led to sails being made to the wrong sail plan followed by a gross Lack of Comms from the management

I understand that, and he appears to have a genuine cause for complaint, as does Fullcircle.
What I think is unjust is the number of posts jumping on the bandwagon to kick an organisation that many have not even dealt with. The thread was starting to look like a witch hunt.
Incidentally, I have also dealt with Wilkinsons Sails and can confirm that their service is exemplary.

 

[FullCircle]

I understand that, and he appears to have a genuine cause for complaint, as does Fullcircle.
What I think is unjust is the number of posts jumping on the bandwagon to kick an organisation that many have not even dealt with. The thread was starting to look like a witch hunt.
Incidentally, I have also dealt with Wilkinsons Sails and can confirm that their service is exemplary.

I fully understand your stance there Dan, and I have only vaguely alluded to my issues before, which are coming up 2 years now.
To be honest, I could not see the point, as it just caused me stress pains, so I moved on.
Actually, I feel this has been a little bit cathartic, and I will not repeat the tale.
I am sure they have many satisfied customers, its just that I am not one of them.

I much prefer to cheer on the good experiences, and let the others wither on the vine.

 

[Habebty]

In response to Snooks, the problem isn't so much "what to ask for" but more of "getting what you asked for". Some people get good service from their sailmaker, whilst others don't it would seem.

My query regarding the OPs problem was how to pick a sailmaker that is likely to deliver what I asked for and the responses I have seen from this thread and another thread I started would seem to indicate there are no garantees with any sailmaker that you will end up satisfied regardless of how tightly you spec your order.

You may be lucky, or you may not.

 

[Koeketiene]

In response to Snooks, the problem isn't so much "what to ask for" but more of "getting what you asked for".

Get in their face - keep badgering/annoying them - they'll give you what you want just to get rid of you.

Worked for me more than once

 

[sailorman]

i bought a full ( & i mean full suit ) suit of sail from Austin Farrar in 1978.
i often she my old boat flying that No2 Genoa, what 33 yrs later.
They made very good sails

 

[Tranona]

You may be lucky, or you may not.

Think you are being overly pessimistic. You are making the assumption that the handful of negative comments here are reprentative of the whole, when they are probably a tiny minority - not just of the firms discussed here, but of all. Those who do not give good service in this highly competitive business do not last long.

The measure is perhaps how long firms stay in business and how much they grow. Just out of the ones mentioned here that I know about, Kemps, Crusader, Sanders, Arun have been in business for at least 20 years, some longer under the same ownership and management, so they must be doing something right. There are no doubt many others similarly long lived. So the chances of getting a bad experience and it not being put right are extremely small. In fact if I were in the market for new sails, I would have difficulty in choosing as there is little difference in basic quality of the mainstream players. They are all capable of making sails to your requirements.

Choice then is about how well they respond to your needs when you discuss your requirements with them.