Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

You're not gludy in disguise are you, tranona? 1955chris is obviously an experienced operator and he's told you there are boats impounded in Spain for non payment of VAT. Are you saying you won't accept his word?
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

Hurricane, I have a Balearic charter licence and my boat is UK registered. My charter company Mallorca Cruising has other larger UK registered boats on it's books which must have Balearic licences too
Valenciana district has a left wing govt which is known for taxing the so called rich. Valenciana seems to want to persecute foreigners in general. For example they brought in a property tax some years ago which sought to levy a huge tax bill on foreign owned properties if a builder developed the land around that property. This was on the basis that somehow a builder constructing other buildings around that property increased it's value by installing roads and sewers even if the property in question didn't need or use them. Many ex pats have been hit with tax bills of tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of euros which I believe is being challenged in the European Court. So it is no surprise that Valenciana also makes life difficult for foreign boat owners but other Spanish local govts have a more enlightened policy
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

1955Chris, welcome to the forums. Sorry to make such a negative reply to your first post but, in the general interests of the forum I can't let that info just sit there. So I gotta say, about 95% of what you have written is just utterly wrong, and not at all a correct summary of the law in the main EU countries. Not meant as a horrid comment sorry, just putting a diofferent point of view :-)
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

Deleted User, in the particular circs of this debate Tranona asks a fair question imho. Sure there are lots of boats impounded for non payment of VAT. My stewie on my boat in France used to sell UK boats seized by UK HMRC for a living, 10 yrs ago. But there is a strong suspicion, reasonably held, that the many tales of customs or guardia civil etc seizing MANY privately owned boats JUST for non possession of VAT invoice (which is a different thing from non payment of VAT due) amount to urban myth.

Against that background Tanona's q is fair imho. I'd love to know of actual examples that are not 4th hand but I can't find any. I've offered 2 examples myself here and will repeat - (1)a 33m small superyacht belonging to a friend of mine whom I've known 20 years impounded in France by Douanes in 2007. It was non VAT paid and was not being used correctly, paperworkwise. I advise the owner on its paperwork but he cut corners! The boat was released 4 days later when tax on the last fuel fill was paid plus a small fine, about €2k. No VAT on the hull was sought by douanes. (2) My own boat, been in France 5 years non VAT paid. Been stopped twice by Douanes near Cannes and had paperwork inspection. No VAT paid invoice on board, obviously, cos it doesn't exist, and all fuel bought de-tax. French officials very happy ("Your paperwork is very good Monsieur JFM, thank you") both times. What we need are more actual examples, please!
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

VAT 'status' is a term used by HMRC, Yacht Brokers and accountants. If you purchase a yacht from a UK Company in the UK for Charter use as a VAT registered company (and approved by HMRC) then you pay the VAT to the manufacture / dealer. As a company you can then reclaim the VAT from HMRC - VAT has been paid and reclaimed in full - so even though the VAT is back in your bank account the yacht now has a 'VAT PAID ' status. The yacht is able to move freely around the EU without having to pay VAT in any other country. The original VAT invoice shows the payment has been made. When the yacht is eventually sold it may be sold to another VAT registered company who only pay the VAT on paper, or mabe its sold through a broker and shown as £00 + VAT. As a private purchaser you will pay the additional VAT to the seller who in turn re pays HMRC - once again VAT paid status on the yacht under a new owner. If a new yacht is sold to a private user the VAT content will be paid by the manufacture / dealer to HMRC - once again VAT paid status. The yacht will remain with that VAT paid status for the rest of its life even if re sold in every EU country during its life - the original payment and proof of it is the important part - hense why it is so important to have the original invoice . However if the yacht is taken out of the UK to say Turkey and sold to a non EU citizen than it will automaticly loose its VAT paid status even though no money has been reclaimed from HMRC, and should the new owner wish to re import to the EU then VAT will have to be paid at the yachts current value upon 'entry'. Entry to the EU can be made, on paper in any country in the EU (and the yacht does not even need to be present). A company such as Peters & May can 'import' a yacht on paper and provide all of the correct certificates from HMRC upon payment of the VAT to them and the whole process takes no longer than a few days, giving the imported yacht 'VAT status'. If a New yacht is purchased in the EU for private use in a non EU country such as Turkey, the yacht can be purchased without payment of the VAT provided its either 'exported' on a truck to Turkey on leaving the factory or 'Sailed away' & out of the EU within strict time scales. This yacht has a 'non paid status' and if re imported at a later date will need VAT paying on the current value upon entry.

A Yacht without VAT paid can 'visit' the EU within certain time scales (theres a lot of Ferrettis' that spend the summer on the Costa del Sol and the winter in Morrocco)and use restrictions. Yachts can also be 'left' in the EU with limited time restrictions providing the owners are non EU but again are subject to 'use restrictions' of the owner only - and it cannot be sold or chartered without the VAT being paid first.

Re your comment on charter licences - yes Island licences are easier to get, as the athorities see yachts as an important revenue earner, indeed, we operated a charter yacht on the mainland for a limited period with a Balearic licence (naughty but had to be done), as it took nearly 2 seasons to get a licence from Valencia!
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

The crucial aspect is referred to but not analysed in detial in the middle of your post. You say "If a new yacht is sold to a private user the VAT content will be paid by the manufacture / dealer to HMRC - once again VAT paid status. The yacht will remain with that VAT paid status for the rest of its life even if re sold in every EU country during its life - the original payment and proof of it is the important part - hense why it is so important to have the original invoice" (my emphasis)

So, let's say I buy, as a private individual, a 4th-hand 2001 yacht in the UK from another private individual. I do not get the original VAT invoice or even a photocopy. I go sailing in the yacht, in the UK (to keep the question at a basic level, before we get all internationally complex). Let's say I'm the unluckiest bloke in the world and a HMRC officer comes on the boat and accidentally I mention "Oh I bought this boat from a nice chap Mr Jones up the road in southampton. He bought it the year before from Mr Smith. It is a few years old and Jones didn't have much paperwork, so no VAT invoice, ho hum"

The HMRC bloke is career hungry and wouldn't dream of sweeping anything under the carpet. What happens to me and my boat at this point?

Question 2: unbeknown to me, the HMRC officer on my boat is actually employed in the VAT Boats unit of HMRC. He suddenly recognises my boat "M/Y Imported", and the name of the last-but-one seller Mr Smith. Mr Smith has been on HMRC's target list becuase he buys boats in Jersey and brings them to UK without paying UK VAT, then sells them to unsuspecting buyers in the UK. My boat is one of his naughty importst and the eagle eyed HMRC officer knows it is, though of course he accepts that I bought the boat innocently and I'm not at all in collusuion with Mr Smith whom I didn't even know about till now. At this point, what happens to my boat and me?
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

Sorry JFM but I am correct - I have spent the past 3 years in striff with HMRC on various subjects relating to yachts and can assure you that as far as UK VAT regulations and EU yacht movements are concerned that I'm pretty much on the ball - if need be I can even quote that relevant VAT information documents and rulings by reference number - how sad is that!? Oh, and after 3 years I won the case's... as for knowledge of yachts within the EU - i've bought and sold 5 over the past 10 years outside of the UK which included a 20 metre Polish reg yacht (prior to the Countries entry to the EU) which was then illegal as far as its VAT status was concerned, so whilst on a forum such as this it is difficult to be concise or give in depth case descriptions, as stated I have a better knowledge than most - which includees an HMRC officer who's specialist subject is yachts who said to me at Southampton BS last year "why are you asking me - you seem to have all of the right answers".

I've always worked on the basis of If you don't know whats in the water - then don't jump into it.
 
Re: VAT on Boats was Apologies for repeating myself, but...

As a person in business, trading accross EU boundaries, The poeple that state VAT is on transactions are completely correct. There is NO VAT paid status on assets, the term is used ( even by officals, but is has no standing). The VAT is on transactions and requires VAT registered persons or business to account for VAT. It is not directly associated with a particular asset. ( all of this assume you are dealing with EU citizens within the EU, on goods in circulation within the EU) and doesnt include charter work or anything.

let deal with a few issues

(a) EU customs officials do have a right to establish that a "new means of transport" ( a boat) has VAT paid on its transactions if

(i) The Owner is an EU tax resident, this is the key issue.
(ii) The customs have to establish if you are "importing it" into the EU for the "first time". VAT is due in the country of destination not the country of origin or the country of transaction. ( this is a specific new means of transport provision and applies to boats over 7.5 metres only).

So say french customs "can" determine that you as a UK citizen are trying to import a vessel into the EU ( ie france) and "could have a VAT liability. They cannot impound it. you have a legal right to a minium of 24 hours to pay the VAT on imports. If you dispute it they have the right to seize the asset, ( even if you paid VAT they have that right). The fact that most dont bother to do so is irrevelant. Revenue/Customs then have to establish who should have paid the VAT, however they can still seize it. ( they all have huge powers against "contraband"). ( They can also fine you and or jail you too).

SO what you are proving is that you are not importing the boat, not its VAT status. ( which it doesnt have in the first place). Any document helps.


The other thing is that having a VAT invoice or whatever doesnt protect you, it merely helps, it doesnt provide proof that the transaction was carried out correctly.

The reason that boats are complex is that the customs have to decide if you are an importer, or if the goods are in "free circulation", thats the issue not VAT. if you can show for example that the boat is based in a UK marina etc etc, then customs can choose to accept that as proof of free circulation. ( or not as the case maybe). Again the transaction may be completely legimately VAT free, there are a number of circumstances where you could be sailing a boat on which the transaction was zero rated for VAT purposes. Again this is not what "Foreign" customs is determining. its determing wheter an importation from outside the EU has occurred. () see below). French customs are not determining that you have or havent paid UK VAT , they dont care.

There is no Proof of vat Paid anything nor does goods carry the staus of VAT paid. There is merely a document trail that shows that you acted reasonablyand within the VAT law. No revenue authority provides vat paid proof all they provide is a recipt of monies. Revenue always reserve the right to re compute VAT.

Hence any Revenue agent can impound your boat, but almost all dont. equally I dont know of any first hand issues in relation to VAT, where a boat was impounded becuase of VAT invoice issues. Where I have had knowledge of impoundings they were different issues, but boiled down to an argument over importation not VAT

Couple of notes

If your are importing a boat you do not have to pay the VAT in the first country landed, ie the Azores, what you have to prove is that you are transporting the boat to the "country of destination". You for example show the authorities that you live in the UK etc and your passage plan is to there then that is the destination country. Its your choice as the importer. But like everthing you have to be able to show what you are about. and that what you propose is reasonable.( you cant undertake a 3 month med cruise and then return to the UK for example!!)


Re-importing boats and the " vat status " question

This whole area is known as Returned Goods Relief and it is a minefield.

The first thing to remember is the default situation is that VAT, in the EU, is due on everything, everywhere at anytime sort of thing and the legislation determines the reliefs from this, so its not a matter that you meet the citeria for not paying VAT its that you can prove you dont meet the citeria for paying VAT.

The first thing is that the "flag of the vessel is irrelevant" VAT law doesnt have any concept. To qualify for RGR there are some rules

(a) The "goods" have to be re-imported within 3 years, other wise you have to jusfiy a wavier of that rule. Outside of 3 years VAT on import is due now matter what ( the default positon) unless you can get a wavier.
(b) Your were the original importer. this is a key point. Its not that the goods changed hands abroad, its that you the original inporter are the ones bringing it back in. ( and it doesnt have to return to the original country of export.) for example you could sell an EU boat to a third party, that could be exported and sold again abroad and then you repurchase it, once you can show that the goods were yours and that they were not substanially improved at your inside the 3 years then provided you fill in copious documents etc its technically possible to get RGR and not pay VAT on import.

( There are lots of other smaller details and restrictions as well).

So applying to to the German/French Italian situation , the reason VAT is due on re-importation is that original exporter was not the subsequent importer.. The only reason the flag state is appropriate here is that re registering the boat in gibraltor is regarded as an exporting of the boat from the EU, its matters not that the boat remained in france. ( if the registered owner was in gib the boat could only remain in france 18 months) I suspect that the boat was put in the name of a gibraltor company etc.

However has the original exporter re-imported it, then relief could have been claimed under RGR. The complication was is was re-imported by a different importer. ( or it fell outside the three years rule)FLagging only affects the boat in that is moves the boat from being applicable to EU VAT law to another countries tax laws and teh EU defines that as export.

What you have to realise is that VAT law was drawn up for people and business registered for VAT, ie whats known as "taxable persons". non-taxable people , you and me effectively cant claim vat relief and this is where the trouble starts

Note that RGR requires copious forms etc.

Boats cannot loose their "VAT status" , they never had one to begin with. What has happened is that any import in the EU is subject to VAT , except where RGR relief applies. The default is you pay VAT, irrespective of how many times you paid VAT before.( see its not on the asset its on the transaction)

Its comes as quite a shock when I mention to sailers that takeing their boat out of the EU "can " result in a VAT bill on their return after more then three years away.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

As far as the law is concerned, the requirement is upon you to prove the VAT status of the yacht, however most vessels can be dated in some way or another and the manufacture known so obtaining a copy of the original invoice should be relitively easy - if the manufacture does not have that record then HMRC will have a record of the original sale of that vessel and weill under pressure provide to relevant paperwork..

As for the cenario of I bought it thinking VAT was paid - not good enough - you should only purchase on sight of the correct documents - if your stupid enough to purchase with out them, then you will have to stump up the cash or loose the yacht if and when the inevertable happens - but remember you will be given a reasonable time to provide any correct documents - they won't snatch the yacht on the spot - although in Spain....
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

[ QUOTE ]
As far as the law is concerned, the requirement is upon you to prove the VAT status of the yacht, ....

... if your stupid enough to purchase with out them, then you will have to stump up the cash or loose the yacht if and when the inevertable happens

[/ QUOTE ]

Please quote me the UK law that says that. I've read pretty much every page of the 12000 or so pages of UK tax law (many many times over) and I've never seen it and will happily courier you a case of champagne if you can quote me the actual section number of the relevant law.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

That's a pretty safe bet, if I've ever seen one!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
...at least, in the terms expressed by 1955Chris.
OTOH, he has a point when he says that advocating bona fide rights in a dodgy transaction might not be enough for the buyer.
That's already been debated at length actually, and I agree that in principle the obligation is only upon the seller, but I would rather not be in the buyer's boots either...
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

Sure, i agree it is better to have the right paperwork. But it's still worth understnading/establishing whether or not I can be forced to pay money to the government just becuase Mr Smith failed to pay!
 
Re: VAT on Boats was Apologies for repeating myself, but...

1955chris, you have made a number of errors

Firstly , again the yacht has no "VAT status" even though the term is routinely used.

The sale of goods and services in the EU are vat-able, thats the default position, it doesnt matter that you are a private person or not

firstly

(a) Vat registered to non-vat registered ( like a dealer to you)

The dealer is required under law to charge VAT on a sale and you as a private person have no recourse to recover the VAT. Most countries have laws that allow the asset to be seized ( from whoever) but only where they discover the VAT has not been correctly applied to the transaction.( not that the dealer absconded with the VAT) However the legal onnus is the vat registered supplier to remit VAT. Your onnus is to pay the VAT to the dealer thats all. The yacht has NO VAT STATUS. if the dealer defaults on the VAT payments that the dealers and Revenues lookout.

(b) Subsequent transactions , say private to private

where both seller and buyer are non-registered for VAT ( ps they could be in business though). then teh seller cannot charge VAT and the buyer cannot recover it. Again this has nothing to do with the VAT status of teh asset. VAT is a tax on sales not a tax on assets. in teh private case a sale occurs but VAT law says that non taxable persons canot charge or recover VAT so no VAT transaction occurs

(c) Private to vat reg business

IN this case the seller cannto charge VAT and the buyer MUST account for VAT on purchases. Hence the buyer computes acquisition VAT. the Seller then sells this to (a) and hence MUST charge VAT.

Again there is no such thing as a VAT status.

It doesnt matter then you have a VAT paid invoice it means nothing per say. Vat invoices show nothing. They merely serve to show that a taxable person ( in teh VAT sense) applied VAT to the sale. It doesnt mean that the boat is "VAT Paid".

The point is that transactions between non-registered persons ie thoses not registered for VAT are under no obligation to provide any so called proof of VAT status. If you buy a secondhand boat from a private owner thats been six times owned before looking for teh original VAt invoice is meaningless, its protects nothing and proves nothing, the sale and purchase of teh boat could have subjected to numerous VAT-able transactions in teh meantime or not, but that document proves nothing. The only thing it protects is the VAt registered supplier on the invoice , it does not protect YOU. That why people rabbiting on about getting VAT invoices miss the point completely. The VAT liability remains with the last "taxable person" in the chain. All you have to show is that didnt import the goods from outside the EU.

We buy cars and other assets privately without this nonsense about VAT. all VAT invoices show is the seller in the transaction "MAY" have charged VAT correctly. A third party VAT invoice, ie one to some previous owner from some previous taxable sale is meaningless. it may help defend your positon but it does NOT mean that VAT has been correctly applied to transactions associated with the yacht. Vat could have become due on any number of transactions since it was originally sold by a dealer. It does not protect you from seizure of teh asset. For example if Revenue decide that VAT was not correctly accounted for in any previous transaction , they have the right to seize the asset proceed from there. Waving a VAT invoice around does nothing

The most important documents to get are (a) bills of sale esepcially historical ones. and (b) a statement from the buyer that the asset is free of emcumbrances. This is much better then a third party Vat invoice. ( which could easily be forged and has little validity)

The second thing as a private seller I will not disclose the buying price to you nor am I required to. lets say your paying over the odds for this boat and I present a original sales invoice. I completely undermine my selling position

( Does a clothes shop show youits wholesale invoices, I think not).

What you want for a big value asset sale, is a free from emcumberances undertaking, NOT a meaningless VAT invoice. What you as the buyer wants is that in the event of a problems you can sue to recover should hidden encumberances occur.

The fact is you cannot establish teh "VAT status"of an asset, it doesnt have one.
 
Re: VAT on Boats was Apologies for repeating myself, but...

Much though not all of what you write is correct GBN

But you say "if Revenue decide that VAT was not correctly accounted for in any previous transaction , they have the right to seize the asset ". Please show me the law that lets them seize it

(Of course it is a different law in each eu country; are you in UK? Can you show me the UK law please? Case of champagne offer open to you too. All the many tens of thousands of pages of UK law are online, text searchable. Here for 1987 and prior, and here for 1988 onwards, so if what you say is true it'll be in there. It isn't, by the way)
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but... [Re: jfm]
#2124672 - 05/01/2009 16:49 Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

"As far as the law is concerned, the requirement is upon you to prove the VAT status of the yacht, however most vessels can be dated in some way or another and the manufacture known so obtaining a copy of the original invoice should be relitively easy - if the manufacture does not have that record then HMRC will have a record of the original sale of that vessel and weill under pressure provide to relevant paperwork "



This is nonsense, please show me such laws and also show me a first hand event where somebody was asked to "prove the VAT status of the vessel"

Secondly

"if the manufacture does not have that record then HMRC will have a record of the original sale of that vessel and weill under pressure provide to relevant paperwork"

absolute horsecodswallop, HMRC has no specifc paperwork relating to any particular VAT transactions, the returns are non specific. You have no clue how VAT accounting works, you are repeating the great "VAT myths about boats"

As to "stumping up your cash"

The liability to pay vat and to compute vat lies with any seller , irrespective of whether they are vat-able or not.

The buyer completes a transaction and hands over money, if the transaction was done at the wrong VAT rate or somebody hasnt paid VAT at SOME stage, then the liability clearly under the law resides with that seller. HMRC could impound the asset irrespective of your VAT invoice, its irrelevant, what is clear is that unless you the buyer commited VAt fraud, you are not liable.

In foreign waters what you have to protect from is the charge that you are importing the boat into teh EU, not it so called VAT status. Spainish customs have no authority or interest in checking that a UK VAT transaction was correctly applied.

What they are checking is that you arnt trying to import it.

Its mis-information like this that has people in a needless tissy about old boats and VAT and its pure mis-information based on forum board heresay and thirds hand nonsense.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

[ QUOTE ]
it's still worth understnading/establishing whether or not I can be forced to pay money to the government just becuase Mr Smith failed to pay!

[/ QUOTE ]Yup, that's the point at the end.
And in this respect (even if I didn't further investigate the subject after the last thread), I rest my case (at least as far as I, F and E are concerned):
1) it's true that you (the buyer) can't be held liable (as a sort of substitute subject) for the VAT that the seller should have collected, BUT
2) whatever was sold in a dodgy transaction (the boat) can be seized, unless the transaction can be proved to be legal (or will be made so).
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

(Of course it is a different law in each eu country; are you in UK? Can you show me the UK law please? Case of champagne offer open to you too. All the many tens of thousands of pages of UK law are online, text searchable. Here for 1987 and prior, and here for 1988 onwards, so if what you say is true it'll be in there. It isn't, by the way)

Jfm,

I draw your attention to http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPorta...tyType=document

HMRC have a general right of seizure in cases of suspected fraud, including VAT and or importation fraud. I am aware that its rarely if ever used in VAT cases unless serious fraud is involved. Its not a specific VAT law issue.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

[ QUOTE ]
HMRC could impound the asset irrespective of your VAT invoice, its irrelevant, what is clear is that unless you the buyer commited VAt fraud, you are not liable.

[/ QUOTE ]You seem to say that the asset can be impounded even if the buyer is not liable.
I assume, unless the buyer can prove the regularity of the transaction, obviously.
If so, I agree with you, but according to jfm this is not true, at least in UK legislation.
And I can safely say that he knows what he's talking about.
That's probably the key point on which most owners around here would be interested to have a clear answer.

PS: I wrote this post before reading your last reply - which just goes to confirm that I agree with you.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

(Of course it is a different law in each eu country; are you in UK? Can you show me the UK law please? Case of champagne offer open to you too. All the many tens of thousands of pages of UK law are online, text searchable. Here for 1987 and prior, and here for 1988 onwards, so if what you say is true it'll be in there. It isn't, by the way)

Jfm,

I draw your attention to http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPorta...tyType=document

HMRC have a general right of seizure in cases of suspected fraud, including VAT and or importation fraud. I am aware that its rarely if ever used in VAT cases unless serious fraud is involved. Its not a specific VAT law issue.

also heres a snipit

"The broad range of penalties that can be imposed on people convicted of VAT fraud includes:

seizure of assets
jail terms of up to seven years
heavy fines
disqualification from being a company director "

from http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/visits-investigate.htm

Again this relates to seizures in certain cases, if you have good title to an asset following a sale, then you are right , it cannot be seized. But if you have participted in a vat fraud the asset can be seized.

I agree with you completely though there is no exposure to a legitimate sale between a buyer and a seller, where both account for vat ( or not if not tax-able) correctly. IN the case of a dealer to private sale a VAt invoice is important as it proves that the vat treatment was correct and that you the buyer didnt enter into a VAT fraud, for private buyers and sellers, some sort of third party VAt invoice is useless and shows nothing relevant to the current sale and the asset will cannot be seized nor CAN be seized under this basis.

old VAT invoices for original transactions are not required and useless anyway. The only paperwork you need is the ones for teh current transaction and a declaration that the asset is free of emcumberances. ( which come under "useful to have" documents). The main thing is to have bill of sale thats all.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

just to make it clear to the people here

If you dont participate in a VAT fraud in the current transaction, then the asset is safe. ie if you do a legimate private purchase, but subsequently it is discovered that VAT was not paid, the issue is for that seller, not for you. The issue is that seller owes VAT to HMRC and fines and penalities, you do not. ( again the asset not vat free or vat paid or anything)

People have reguritated old hearsay and nonsense and in particular nonsense about VAT abroad. The key thing that you have to show abroad is that the boat is legimately in free circulation in the EU. Thats all. Whatever documentation you show is to that end. Its got nothing to do with UK VAT or anyother countries VAT.

ALso my "seizure comments" were realted to this, ie if you cant prove that the goods are legimately in the EU , then Customs can seize them ( in the UK and elsewhere). This is because you are suspected of a import fraud. But this has nothing to do with having VAT invoices!!!.
 
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