Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

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There was no VAT or Duty owed on the vessel.

[/ QUOTE ]I understand that in practice the vessel was not being imported, but I don't think that the SSR certificate alone could prove that.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

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VAT docs are desirable for the reasons you give, and not because the boat can or will actually be seized to pay someone else's tax debts.

[/ QUOTE ]J, in principle you are absolutely correct, period.
There's a big 'but', otoh: the boat can still be seized, and I think those interested should be aware of that and of the reason why. I'll try to explain this with an example.
A Spanish, French or Italian private individual buys a UK flagged boat in the UK, from a UK private citizen: a clear-cut case of a transaction outside VAT scope.
Let's assume that the happy buyer brings the boat back to his home Country, with no paperwork at all: the reason why he'll get his boat seized upon the first check is simply because he has no mean to prove that he didn't import illegally the boat.
Which is something he can be held liable for, not the seller.
And that has just a little to see with what is being discussed re. VAT docs (even the original invoice could be irrelevant in this context). Sure, he will be asked to pay VAT and penalties, but that's only a side effect of the charge of illegal import.
Of course, if he can prove that the boat was bought within EU from another private individual, he'll be fine, but if he can't he's definitely in trouble.
So, at the end of the day, some proof of the regularity of the purchasing transaction (whatever that can mean, depending on the specific case - and not necessarily the manufaturer's invoice) is not only desirable.
I'd rather call it necessary.

PS: it's also worth mentioning that there is a subtle difference between say
1) a Spanish purchasing such boat and being checked by Spanish authorities in his home Country, and
2) a UK private individual doing the same transaction and being checked by Spanish authorities in Spain.
In fact, the charge is potentially the same, but obviously the second is more likely to get away than the first, 'cause Spanish authorities might not bother to prosecute a foreigner.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

Agreed completely. But the Spanish/Fr/Ital guy who just bought a boat from Mr UK (which is happening a lot with the weak £) would surely have documents to prove he bought in the UK from a UK individual (eg contract of sale, surveyor's report, proof of bank transfer payment, bill of sale, etc) even if he had no VAT paperwork. So he should be ok when he gets checked by the Es/Fr/It officials on his return home

Putting this another way, if you buy a secondhand boat with no VAT papers it is doubly important to keep papers proving you bought it in a private-individual to private-individual transaction, inside the EU. Hence you can prove you bought it in an outside-scope transaction for VAT purposes and it has not been imported to EU by you
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

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is happening a lot with the weak £

[/ QUOTE ]LOL, funny that you mention, I'm keeping a close eye on the UK market at the moment! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
100% agreed on the rest.
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

"I'm keeping a close eye on the UK market at the moment!"

Yes, thank you MapisM, but you Eurolanders are ruining a perfect opportunity to buy a boat at a good price!

Coming over here with your high faluting currency and distorting the market, could you let me buy mine first and then you can force the prices up...




/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

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could you let me buy mine first

[/ QUOTE ]Sure, I can offer you mine if you're interested.
I might even accept a payment in pounds... Lot of them, obviously. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Apologies for repeating myself, but...

All interesting points. I too have a VAT question that remains unclear after 10 years of ownership. I bought my boat from UK accountants acting as insolvency practitioners on behalf of UK Official Receiver. Boat was originally exported to Japan, but got only as far as Spain, when owner (Japanese living in UK) went bancrupt. I bought the boat without encumerances, but sellers did not have VAT certificate for vessel, though they insisted it was VAT paid. Employed a lawyer in Spain to try to pay the Spanish the VAT, but to no avail. The boat was UK registered, owned and sold by British nationals, to another British national, and was in bond in Spain at the time I first inspected her. Sailed boat back to UK via Spain Gib and Portugal. UK HMCE Wales issued a stamped letter stating that the boat would be classed as VAT paid vessel upon arrival in UK. I notiifed them of arrival for them to inspect in 2005, but have still not seen hide nor hair of them. Attempts to get a better form of proof VAT status have failed so far. Latest fax with copy of their letter to HMCE helpline has not been answered. Basically I do not think they want to be bothered. However, the idea of venturing into the sunnier waters of another EU state are somewhat worrying without an Eu approved VAT receipt.

Any ideas?
 
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