Does this worry those of you who keep boats in spain?

Whitelighter

Whitelighter

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Spanish tax foreign boats - PBO

I wouldnt want some spaniard hitting me with a 12% tax. But then they have a history of this with land grabs which almost unilaterally affect land owned by non-spaniards.

Most recently I think they have even begun to 'grab' moorings in one area.

I struggle to see how it would be legal, but unlike us, most of the big EU countries seem to stick to fingers up to brussels when it doesnt suit them to tow the line.
 
I have checked & rechecked with the spanish authorities the
question of the 12% tax , maltriculation , if you do not exceed
182days on your boat you are free , however you must prove
that you have not exceeded the time scale , retention of airline tickets , logging in to the marina that you are returning to the uk , ie establish a trail of movement that you are not
resident , if you exceed the 182 day period you fall under Spanish Tax Rules , its as simple as that /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Part of the problem is that so many people choose to head for Spain, to livaaboard and/or retire, but there is no incentive for them to come and do the same in the UK. So there is no balance, or feeling of tit-for-tat in looking after each others.
 
Thanks for pointing this out.

But, like rofer, I have checked, double checked and trebble checked that these laws only apply to those who are bound to register as a spanish "tax resident" - think about it its sort of fair.
If you spend most of your life in a country, isnt it right that that country should have you registered there for tax purposes. After all, by default, you wouldnt then be spending most of your time in any other country.
So, if you ARE registered in Spain for tax purposes, isnt it then correct that you should pay the same taxes and do the same things as any other spaniard - i.e. have your boat spanish registered and pay the tax that any other spaniard would have to.

On the other hand (and as far as I know), it does seem a bit of an infringement that we as UK residents can register a boat anywhere in the world and keep it in UK waters without paying any local tax. This is an example of how different cultures are within Europe. Actually, I believe that we shoud dump the EEC and its laws completely - for this reason - incompatible cultures.
 
OK, so the article was journalistically vague about compunded issues of reidency etc. We have friends with villas over there and they are careful to spend less than 6 months there every year.

If you are resident in spain, then I guess the taxes are due. Seems clear enough.
 
The situation of having a villa and also the boat is another variation , if you have a villa in your name , or hold a niff number or nie number the 182 day rule is not accepted in the Canaries , /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
I am no strangler to this . If you visit www.spainvia.com click on Spanish boat registration and taxes, then scroll down to "Compulsory spanish boat registration" this explains about the 12% matriculation tax.

It is a tax levied on any vessel sailing in Spanish waters for more than 182 days in any one tax year, not just for livaboards as it happens.

It has been actively pursued in the balearics for some time , and indeed locally to me recently.

Several boats in our marina have been served "precinto" notices stuck on their boats which means it is "sealed" not to be used until the tax is paid.

Also in Banus where a degree of panic set in last year when a number of boats were effected, quite a few fled, especially the big nes.

Cant be difficult for the Guardia all they have to do is check with the Marina office to see which foreign flagged vessels (not just UK) have been moored for over 6 months. They say it is the same law as applied to foreign reg vehicles which stay more than six months continueously, they too have to be registared and tax paid.

Now one can understand it more with cars as they need to know how many vehicles are using the roads to obvious reasons concerning infastructure of the roads etc.

Strangley there are a few livaboards in our marina who have so far been lucky and not been rumbled.

They can also nab you even if you live in the UK and its only the boat which stays over 6 months in Spain. In such cases they charge the 12% matriculation,
(which incidently is not on the total value ofthe boat so not as bad as it sounds, more later) and let you keep the UK flag.

The matriculation takes into account age, i.e. after devaluation, the hull and engines treated seperately, i.e. smaller engines less tax.

The other thing mentioned is of course for those who live over here either on or off their boats, the same applies you are subject to the 12%. The difference is once you and the boat become "Spanish" as it where i.e. the boat changes to Spanish flag, then you need qualifications in Spanish the UK ICC will not do. This of course is not practical in most cases as it involves learning a glossary of hundreds of sailing terms in Spanish for one thing, however most authorities do recognise the Yachtmaster.

All in all a sad situation, and I fear that if the Spanish really go to town on this, they will alienate foreign boat owners and seriously harm their economy as boats leave.

Clive

P.S. if you keep you boat in Spain and live in UK, and say your neighbour here is a nice Spanish fellow and you say "hey Pedro whilst I am back in the UK feel free to use me boat" if he gets caught using your UK reg vessel he will be charged and have to pay the 12% matriculation on the boat, they will stick a precinto notice on it until it is paid. This is cos "Spanish" residents cannot skipper foreign flagged vessel unless or until the matriculation tax on that vessel is paid.
 
[ QUOTE ]
They can also nab you even if you live in the UK and its only the boat which stays over 6 months in Spain. In such cases they charge the 12% matriculation,

[/ QUOTE ]

So that's pretty much every British owned boat in Spain then, other than a handful which are trailered back each year? Does a day trip to France or Gibralter break the chain, or is it an aggregate 183 days?
 
British and indeed ANY foreign flagged vessel. Given our proximity to Gib I believe they would see even couple of weeks stay in Gib which I could do easierly,
an attempt round it, and they would not accept it. Dont forget even if I did go to Gib for a couple of weeks I would still keep my berth here lest I loose it.

I do have a friend who has been here three years, his boat that is, and he is about to move it to Gib for 6 months to be sure of a clear break from Spain
 
Clive
You write:[ QUOTE ]
They can also nab you even if you live in the UK and its only the boat which stays over 6 months in Spain. In such cases they charge the 12% matriculation...

[/ QUOTE ]

but the article to which you link says something different:

Whilst there is some doubt about this, all experience and evidence indicates that it is the individual's residency status which influences the tax situation - not the geographical location of the yacht.
indeed it goes on to say:
When leaving a boat in a marina, say for the winter, it is probably sensible to leave it as very obviously de-commissioned. As a matter of good practice the log should show movements clearly and the time spent in Spanish waters. In the event of being challenged, the onus of proof is with the boat owner who is advised tot keep marina receipts, proof of air travel etc out of Spain. It is possible to have the boat precintado or sealed by the Customs as proof that it is not being used to follow the less than 182 day rule.

If you are right, and any foreign flagged boat kept in Spanish Waters for more than 182 days is liabile for the 12% matriculation, why would leaving the vessel out of commission make any difference?
 
Whilst there is some doubt about this, all experience and evidence indicates that it is the individual's residency status which influences the tax situation - not the geographical location of the yacht.
indeed it goes on to say:
When leaving a boat in a marina, say for the winter, it is probably sensible to leave it as very obviously de-commissioned. As a matter of good practice the log should show movements clearly and the time spent in Spanish waters. In the event of being challenged, the onus of proof is with the boat owner who is advised tot keep marina receipts, proof of air travel etc out of Spain. It is possible to have the boat precintado or sealed by the Customs as proof that it is not being used to follow the less than 182 day rule.

If you are right, and any foreign flagged boat kept in Spanish Waters for more than 182 days is liabile for the 12% matriculation, why would leaving the vessel out of commission make any difference?

________________________________________________________________

I agree why would leaving it out of commission make a difference? its still in Spanish waters for more than 6 months.

Moreover how does one decommission a boat which is gonna be in the marina afloat. You cant just take the "distributor cap off" :~) I say in the water as the Spanish do not have the facility to store boats ashore in the main, which would be one way of stressing thats its "decommissioned" Anyway ashore is still in Spain.

I dont know of anyone who in practice has acheived this
 
OK, you don't know anyone who has had their boat made "precintado" and avoided the 12% matriculation tax, but do you know anyone not resident in Spain who has been caught by the tax merely because their boat was in the country while they were not.
The CA article says that can't happen, but you say it can.
 
This sounds like things have gone a complete circle, before the EU got involved, when Brit owners used to lay up for 6 months of the year to avoid VAT on new boats imported to Spain [or France]
 
indeed rallyveteran you have a point to which I concede. I believe the folks effected to date have been "living" over here for more than six months, thus the individual gets residencial status for tax and the boat has to pay tax also.

Upon reading the passage "Short stay sailors" again on the web site, I see they state that as long as a person does not spend more than 6 months at a time they, then they quote :

"as far as I know they can leave their boat in a Spanish port over the winter say, with no such liability"

Not 100% positive but they go on to recommend "when leaving a boat in a marina , say for the winter (ie. over six months), it is probably sensible to leave it e-commissioned etc.............."

This recommendation in itself confirms that they have reservations about their facts.



This "decommissioning" by the way I believe (perhaps others can confirm) applies to foreign flagged cars staying in Spain, as a way of avoiding registaring the car and thus avoiding tax.
 
Clive, is your intepretation correct? As far as I understand it and your link seems to say the same, the 182 day rule refers to the individual not the boat. I agree with Hurricane that it is is the individual's Spanish residency and, hence, tax status that is pertinent so it is livaboard owners who need to be most worried. If it referred to the boat, then every foreign registered boat in Spain would be in danger and there would be a mass exodus which AFAIK is not happening
Anyway, Valenciana has 'previous' when it comes to persecuting foreigners, particularly with property taxes and there is considerable doubt whether other districts would seek to damage their tourism economy in the same way. The Balearic govt, for example, seem very concerned about falling tourism at present and are bringing in initiatives to attract visitors rather than drive them away
As a boater in Spain, I'm not particularly worried by this situation as there is no way I get close to spending 182 days on my boat (I wish /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif)
 
"indeed rallyveteran you have a point to which I concede"


Hi Mike extract above from my last post, indeed that seems to be the case and the boat will not be subject to the tax providing the owner does not reside here.
more than 182 days in a tax year.


The problems occurs when say a Brit brings his boat here then decides to take up residency in Spain near his boat.
Imagine you was really really rich and you were considering buying a 20m berth in Banus for saying 1.5m € to house your new Manhattan 60 another 1.5m €, only to find that should you like it and consider moving here you've got a huge bill coming.

I think if that became common knowledge it may have an adverse effect on berth values dont you?
 
When I enquired, the RYA legal team advised the following:

"To the best of our knowledge, the Spanish “wealth” tax (Matriculation) only applies to people who are resident in Spain – this can in some areas include people who own a second home in Spain, but we are not aware of it being applied to <span style="color:blue"> ANYONE </span> who simply berths their boat there. The last information we had was that the wealth tax is a luxury goods tax at 12% of the value of the item in addition to VAT, if it is paid at a VAT chargeable event (such as an import or purchase from a VAT registered organisation)."

Now to be considered a resident you need to spend 183 days.

So I suppose it begs the question: Has <span style="color:blue"> ANYONE </span> participating in this forum that have been resident in Spain for less than 183 days ever been prosecuted and/or actually had to pay this tax?
 
[ QUOTE ]
the Spanish “wealth” tax (Matriculation)

[/ QUOTE ]
Well - that just about summs up the RYA
Complete bollocks
I wonder if you'd have more success if you asked them the time!

Seriously though - they haven't a clue.
 
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