Does GRP deteriorate when submerged in mud ?

Hire a decent petrol/diesel powered water pump. Connect the discharge pipe to a piece of plastic pipe and use a water jet/lance to loosen the mud around the hull.

Give it a steady pull and it should come up.

On then will you find that it sank because the stern is damaged ;)
 
aneng said:
Here are a couple of better pics of the boat in question...


IMG_5751Small_zpsd3100179.jpg


IMG_5753Small_zps05c367b7.jpg



I've waded out to it and it's in very soft mud... I couldn't stand near it for more than a few seconds as I was sinking in it up to the top of my wellies.

There's no way I would be able to dig that out, purely because standing in that stuff is nigh on impossible, never mind standing in it and digging it !

However... I have another plan... and I was wondering if I could pick your esteemed brains to see if it's remotely sensible...

I'm planning on seeing if I can pull it out - very VERY slowly - by the bow eye, using some 8mm polyprop rope and a cable puller.
The rope has a breaking strain of about 1000Kg and the cable puller can manage double that. My theory says that if I apply a couple of hundred pounds of tension on the bow eye over several hours or days if need be, then it ought to slowly pull it out of the mud. If I can exert a tension greater than the weight of the boat plus whatever mud is inside, it *should* start to slide out - slowly. I'm hoping the bow eye doesn't shear off, but I think they are fairly strong points aren't they ? They need to be strong enough to take the weight of a boat plus assorted paraphernalia and a decent sized outboard up onto a trailer, and I'm guessing that the mud inside might be roughly equivalent of a large motor, so if I take it really slowly, I might get some movement on it.

What do you guys think ?
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That is going to have some tons of mud in it.
I would guess the best way to shift it would be to tie lots of buoyancy to it and wait for the tide to come in.
A big petrol pump or pressure washer to move the mud around and break the suction under the hull will help.
I doubt the bow eye will be terribly strong, its bolts may have corroded and weakened the grp locally by expansion.
Speedboats with no engine or trailer can be had for next to nothing.
 
lw395 said:
That is going to have some tons of mud in it.
I would guess the best way to shift it would be to tie lots of buoyancy to it and wait for the tide to come in.
A big petrol pump or pressure washer to move the mud around and break the suction under the hull will help.
I doubt the bow eye will be terribly strong, its bolts may have corroded and weakened the grp locally by expansion.
Speedboats with no engine or trailer can be had for next to nothing.
Click to expand...

Bet there is a 70hp Evinrude on the back of that.
 
lw395 said:
That is going to have some tons of mud in it.
I would guess the best way to shift it would be to tie lots of buoyancy to it and wait for the tide to come in.
A big petrol pump or pressure washer to move the mud around and break the suction under the hull will help.
I doubt the bow eye will be terribly strong, its bolts may have corroded and weakened the grp locally by expansion.
Speedboats with no engine or trailer can be had for next to nothing.
Click to expand...

If I can stand next to it, perhaps using home-made mud pattens as mentioned by AntarcticPilot (thanks for that mate !), then I can dig a bit around it to help.
I know I could pick up a second hand equivalent for peanuts, but it's the idea of bringing something back to life that appeals to me. Maybe it's something to do with me having a minor heart attack last year, I don't know. I just like restoring things, and upside-down in the mud is not where a boat is supposed to be.

I've never really even liked motorboats that much - I more of a sail fan, but... there isn't a 25ft cruiser sitting there !

I don't want to spend much on trying to get it out. Finances are tight and I've already bought wellies & ordered the cable puller, rope and snap-hook. Hiring a petrol powered pump is likely to cost upwards of £70 a day. I may like restoring things but not so much that I'm willing to pay out more than is sensible on what may still turn out to be a lump of ruined GRP !
 
Even I would walk away.
You cant see enough of the hull to make it worth your while
If the rain sank it it would be laying flat on the mud, like it is anything could have happened to the hull that you cant see.
 
If the rain sank it and it had a '70hp Evenrude' on the back, she'd have gone down stern first. Most likely trapped air in the bow which made her settle bow up stern down in the mud.
 
Well.... it's too late now... I've ordered the cable puller ! ...for which I have absolutely no other use, so I've got to at least give it a go ! :-)

Interestingly, if you look at this 2005 satellite image of the same mooring, it shows a boat on there that definitely has something hanging off the back. It appears to be a different colour to the boat I'm planning on attempting to drag out (red vs blue !) but... it's a very grainy satellite image and it might be some weird image processing anomaly - or - it could be a different boat !

boat_zps5eb8d6f7.jpg


If it really does have an outboard hanging off the back, I'd be overjoyed.... If there's one restoration job I love more than any other, it's old engines.
 
hartcjhart said:
how do you mean ordered a cable puller, do you mean a 'turfer' if so I can lend you one
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Yes. Many thanks for the kind offer but mine has just arrived. It only cost £13.50, so it's no great expense.

I've been thinking... always dangerous ! - about dividing the load on the boat. Lw395 expressed concerns that the bow eye may not be as strong as I hope, so what about sharing the load with the various cleats on top ? I don't know a lot about cleats, but I'm guessing the one on the top, nearest the cabin in the centre will be the next strongest point. What about the two little ones on the port & starboard bow ? They're a bit slantey.. so I can see difficulty in getting 10mm rope to hold on there, but if I could, do you think they would take much load ? What are they used for normally ?

If I can share the load about, there's less likelihood of something ripping out.

Marvel at my amazing technical drawing skills... :-)

ropes_zps786ea47a.jpg


IMG_5751Small_zpsd3100179.jpg
 
I think it's an excellent idea to share the load, but wouldn't fancy putting too much on the red line at the bottom of the photo (going into the middle of the foredeck). Th stifest areas will be nearer the hull - deck joints, usually.

Are you thinking of pulling it out of the mud like that? If so, I don't fancy your chances much. I'm not even sure that you'd be able to pull the boat full of mud (let alone break the suction between it and the mud on the outside) without damaging it. Would you be able to get someone in another boat with a big petrol powered pump or pressure washer to try and blast a jet of water down between the fibreglass and the external mud as the tide came in and started to just cover it? Apologies if someone has already suggested this - haven't read the whole thread.
 
Without knowing where you've got somewhere solid enough to exert a pull from, it might be best to pull sideways so that the hull/deck join is the leading edge trying to slice through the mud. It's more blade-like than the deck or the hull.

Incidentally, something that stuck in my mind from dinghy days is that a cockpit full of water in a Fireball weighs a half-ton. I suspect you're looking at five (or so) tons of mud in that thing, so some shovelling is going to be required fairly early on.
 
Getting a pressure washer or pump out there is a non-starter I'm afraid. I'm not willing to risk much money on it and I don't know anyone who a) has a boat and b) is nuts enough to help me try to dig out what will probably be a pile of knackered fibreglass!. The best I can do is to shovel what I can away from the stern and possibly poke some deep holes all around the hull with a big stick just before the tide comes in... hopefully the mud won't fold in on itself before the water can run down the holes. I don't want to be out there too close to the tide - it's about 50 metres away from the shore and the water rushes in fast (it actually reaches 8 knots in the main channel !).

Those little cleats on the bow edges.... they're not going to take much load are they ?
 
I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but I'd be very supprised if you managed to dig it out manually.

Tidal mud like that sticks to everything. As fast as you dig it out, it'll be sliding back in to the hole you've dug.

With out being able to work from a boat and have plenty of water jets to break the mud suction (and jet out the mud from the inside of the hull), the weight of the mud laden boat will be to much.

And don't forget that you may have a heavy lump of knackered outboard under there as well

How much time do you have between being able to get to the boat and the tide coming back in?
 
As others have observed, the only real hope of getting it out is buoyancy bags inside(or skyhooks!:)) and blasting the mud away from around it with a jetwash while the tide is in about it. There's 8' odd of boat submerged in mud; tonnes of mud, an outboard and suction mean pulling on the bow horizontally is not likely to achieve anything beyond ripping the fittings off.

If you have the gift of the gab perhaps you could talk the local Trumpton into have a combined fire/rescue exercise, then you'll have man-sized water jets of water and access mats to get around it without getting stuck.
 
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Hi! ;)

aneng said:
If it really does have an outboard hanging off the back, I'd be overjoyed.... If there's one restoration job I love more than any other, it's old engines.
Click to expand...

Old outboards are bad enough when they're flushed with fresh water after use and kept fairly clean and dry - I wouldn't expect more than a barely recognisable hunk of corroded metal if it's been in the mud for more than a few days.

I doubt that any of the cleats will support any meaningful load - they mostly seem to be decorative on the small speedboats I've seen. Probably the strongest point would have been the bow eye.

I love the sentiment, and I hope I'm wrong, but I really don't think you've got a cat in hell's chance! :(
 
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