Farmer Piles
Well-Known Member
Just anecdotally, locally Cockwells and Rustler are busy currently, plenty going on at both yards. How long their order books are I have no idea but looing good currently.
Does British boat building have a future?
- Thread starter henryf
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rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Yes, we helped with introducing them to the process. However, they failed to date in using VR for product or manufacturing engineering where real efficiencies could be gained.
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Like the auto industry in the 60’s and 70’s? BL? That didn’t end well!
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
I would guess they do but I have no way to know since they are not public listed.
They also have an advantage with outboards, as production times are further reduced, so the cost of making a boat is a lot less, even to stern drives or IPS boats.
They offered the 60 Pied-a-mer flagship with inboard diesels and surface drives for eighty knots top speed when they announced the project, but AFAIK they have not build one,
but about a dozen of them with outboards.
The current owners have owned Midnight Express since 2006, for a company founded in 1999. They make about fifty boats a year.
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
They are now considered classics
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
Ok say I win the lotto today , is there any manufacturer would have a boat ready to sell to me in the 50-65 range .
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
Only by deluded people who never experienced the misery of a Austin Maxi back in the day. And I say that as someone who used to work for BL, albeit briefly.They are now considered classics
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
The problem of this is that the history and market offer has always been very similar with the exception of Sunseeker till the eighties. When it raced offshore racing etc.If some form of consolidation was to occur, I don't think you succeed with an economy / mid-range / premium segmentation of the market. All this usually achieves is loss of separate brand identity and over time the ranges develop significant overlap, become confusing to the customer and cannibalising each others customers. Better to follow the model of the Ferretti Group, position the brands differently and then work to make each a leader in its respective, narrowly defined segment.
FWIW (probably not much), here's my view
Perhaps Sunseeker could be the equivalent of Riva / Pershing ... powerful, fast, stylish and expensive, focusing on the market for sports cruisers, sports bridge and low-slung flybridge "yachts" in the 50-90ft size range with a big marketing budget, targetting celebrity/high-profile customers and those for whom image is everything. Princess could be the equivalent of Ferretti Yachts ... refined elegance, conservative styling, superior build quality and a better overall "value" proposition for the knowledgeable HNW/UHNW customer, concentrating on the mainstream 50-80ft flybridge market with maybe one or two "halo" products at the 90ft size. They would need to find a new niche for Fairline which doesn't overlap with either of the above ... perhaps something like Absolute's Navetta range of trawlers in the 50-70ft size range, Bluegame's open cockpit yachts, or why not something like the Pardo / Wajer market for practical open day boats in the 40-60ft range. If they did want to continue in the large yacht market, all of the existing models should be redesigned and consolidated under a new brand with a strong focus on sleek design, owner customisation and ultra-high quality and relaunched as an alternative to brands like Custom Line, Sanlorenzo, etc. in the 100-130ft range (i.e. not positioned simply an extension of the existing product lines into bigger hulls using the same design language and interior finishes).
Increase the degree of standardisation in non-visible areas (marine engineering, powertrains, domestic and household systems, etc.) across the ranges and you get economies of scale, efficiencies in building and reduction in warranty and support costs. Fully embrace modern manufacturing methodologies, rationalise and refurbish outdated facilities, and consolidate production where possible and you eliminate duplication and waste. Outsource as much as you can and you drive down inventory and costs everywhere and almost certainly drive up quality. Consolidate marketing, management and other common overheads and you save even more money.
Maybe at the end of all this after 5-10 years of hard work and some ups and downs in the market you have a profitable, cash generative group with c. £1 billion of sales that you can run as an annuity business, sell to a private buyer or float on the stock market.
We can always dream
Ferretti was clever in picking different brands, with the exception of Mochi Craft which was its biggest competitor till the mid nineties, but then they bought they immediately changed to something different.
Ferretti creates Custom Line to enter the bigger yacht market. With huge success as they are the top builders in number of 30 to 40 meters in size of the last 25 years.
Ferretti buys Pershing, with is a total different proposition. Yes Ferretti did 38/35/47 sport cruisers type yachts but never fully focused on it.
Ferretti buys Riva. A total different offer as well, famous more for its small roundabouts then anything else. There was a bit of product overlapping (like the 54 Aquarius competing with Fer 53) or some of the Riva clashing with Pershing but still a bit of a different proposition.
Ferretti buys Mochi. Its main competitor in the eighties and nineties when Ferretti was growing fast. They buy it and change it totally to make lobster boats.
Ferretti buys Bertram. Not much to say here, they make sportfishers, which Ferretti did once with the 34 model. Now sold.
Ferretti buys CRN. An important purchase to enhance its status as much as Riva, as this brand was a connoisseurs super yacht builder as much as Feadship till the nineties. CRN will be its super yacht line. They try a venture in the 40 to 50 meter semi custom GRP builds to compete with Benetti Class GPR which today is dropped.
Ferretti buys Apreamare. Again another different offer, with some small clashing for the bigger units with Mochi.
Ferretti buys Itama. Another different offer to the above. Probably a small clash in with some of the Riva open yachts.
Ferretti buys Wally. Another different offer.
Apreamare has been sold since like 2012 back to its original ownership, while Mochi Craft has not produced a boat probably since 2015 and some of the moulds have been sold.
And Bertram has been sold to Gavio in 2015.
Interestingly and is true even to all models besides making a collective bargaining for supply chains, the models do not share much. Probably there is some sharing beteen the big Ferretti yachts and Riva flybridge at around seventy to 100ft.
For example a Riva 63 has a total different hull to an Itama 62, and are build in total different locations. The Riva is build in Sarnico the Itama at FY in Forli. The hulls are total different shape etc etc
Anyways if you know the history of the above brands this was very well planned targeted purchasing of consolidating a Group. As all brands had a leadership in the respecting fields.
Chapeau to Norberto.
When FlPrSs unite it is like when FG bought Mochi, which was probably the smallest success they had and probably a small mistake of sorts even though in the end it turned out well.
But they actually did for one reason as Genmar and another Italian investor was closing on the brand, and NF (considering Mochi had a lot of fans at the time) wanted to take it out of the picture.
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
Probably on nights.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
stelican
Well-Known Member
For shallow water cruising ie The Bahamas!Stands to reason.
Who would want a M.E. for cruising at sailboat speed?
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Updated it was meant for eighty 
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Yes, but all now gone other than Land Rover. Jaguar is not producing anything at the moment. All the truck companies have gone. Such a success?They are now considered classics
Bouba
Well-Known Member
It does seem strange that after we lost the aeronautical industry…followed by ship building….then the automotive industry …,that we still have left the remnants of the leisure boating industry
Seastoke
Well-Known Member
So now London has closed for the weekend ,I wonder how many of the business men will be posting in their own time not the companies.
Time Out
Well-Known Member
I don’t think any of them live or work in London ….. or work anymore for that matter !
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Aero is pretty healthy. Airbus make all their wings in the UK. RR make engines. Bae Systems make fighter aircraft, and there are some satellite manufacturers too. Automotive is reasonably healthy. Nissan, Toyota, JLR build 1.5 million cars on a good year, plus the specialists, Bentley, RR, McLaren, Lotus etc.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
Nissan is about to go down globally
potentillaCO32
Well-Known Member
Yes, this forum is a good reflection of the uk leisure boat market. I am guessing the average age of forumites is 65+, probably 70 ish.
Most of the regulars who posted when i joined in another guise in early 2000s have moved on and there is much less activity than there once was.
Currently sitting in our house near la trinité and the contrast in activity in february compared to the uk, ceratinly the east coast, is huge. Big racing fleet went out yesterday, lots of non race sailing boats went out and of course quite a few of the merry fisher peche promenade type motor boats. I doubt you would see one sailing boat on the Crouch yesterday, maybe a couple of fishing boats.
The other contrast is how many new boats are in the marina. Couple of new pogos, two of the new sunfast 36s just on one pontoon.
I think that the decline in uk leisure boating has been as big a factor in the decline of the uk boat industry as inefficient practices.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Perhaps they own the companies rather than being employees, so own time/company’s time are the same thing.
