documents required for cruising in Spain

[Swiftgk]

we are currently in La Rochelle hoping to jump off to the north coast of Spain in the next few days. Before leaving Ireland we were unable to get insurance, despite up to date survey it has not been a problem in France as we have been stopped by customs already. I can't understand why is has been so difficult to get insurance maybe the size of boat - 24ft. However from the pilot book it seems to be more strict in Spain. Is this the case? We intend to stay on the Northern coast. If you don't have insurance and are caught what is the fine?

 

[jerryat]

Are you saying that your insurance company won't cover you for the Biscay crossing, or for cruising the northern coast of Spain?

You may well have to accept a refusal for cover for the crossing, but I wouldn't have thought they would have a problem with covering you once there.

Suggest you have another word with them and specify your intended cruising area.

 

[ThereAndBack]

I regularly had to show insurance in Spanish marinas, last year. No inusrance = no berth. Don't recall ever having to show it in France.

 

[jenku]

Lots of people who sail around the world do not have insurance, can't see why it would be a problem anywhere. It's just when ju wreck anyone else's boat you'll have to pay it yourself.

 

[jenku]

[ QUOTE ]
I regularly had to show insurance in Spanish marinas, last year. No inusrance = no berth. Don't recall ever having to show it in France.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I find that outrageous. I would never dream of showing any papers at all to a marina. They are not the police but a private business! They take my money and give me a berth, the police state part they ought to leave to government agencies - which is bad enough!!

 

[wotayottie]

For what its worth (my experience is maybe 7 years ago) I was not asked for docs in Spain during the two years I was there. Not even once.

Some lovely little harbours. Even Bilbao is nice (use the yacht club rather than the marina though the yacht club is a bit upmarket and dressy). Marina in Santander is cr*p - middle of nowhere unless nowhere has now moved. Liked Gijon.

Some of the small harbours are inaccessible when the swell gets up.

 

[jerryat]

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of people who sail around the world do not have insurance, can't see why it would be a problem anywhere. It's just when ju wreck anyone else's boat you'll have to pay it yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really believe that, I sincerely hope you never anchor or sail anywhere near us! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

There is absolutely NO excuse not to carry at least third party insurance, so that other boats or persons you might damage or injure are covered for repairs/hospitalisation.

Why should the injured party have to chase an uninsured boat-owner through the courts, perhaps to find the only asset they have is the old boat that hit you? /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[jenku]

I do carry third party, but that does not keep me from opposing it being a legal requirement. Also I do strongly oppose private businesses playing cops and I'd rather go somewhere else than show anything more than a credit card to a marina. I don't need to show papers to use a parking lot either or do I in Britain?

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum

I am assuming you are a UK citizen, although even if you are Irish much of this applies. Go onto the RYA website and on the home page click on Boating Abroad. That will give just about everything you need to know, although of course it does refer to documents that are issued to UK citizens.

With regard to insurance, There is no compulsion to have insurance to sail in the sea - you just carry the risk yourself. However it is not unreasonable for a marina to insist that you carry third party insurance when on their "premises" in case you do any damage to either their facilities or other boats. I don't know, because I have not looked it up, but the Spanish authorities may well insist on at least third party insurance when in their territorial waters. The RYA will be able to tell you.

If you do not insure, you have unlimited personal liability to third parties.

Third party insurance is not difficult to get and normally no survey is required. What may be difficult is insuring your boat and yourself if the underwriters consider you an unacceptable risk because for example they consider your boat inadequate for where you intend to cruise or your experience insufficient.

 

[ccscott49]

Third party insurance is a legal requirement for marinas in Spain. Seemples!

Might be a good idea to have an ICC and proof of ownership/registration of some kind.

 

[ThereAndBack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I regularly had to show insurance in Spanish marinas, last year. No inusrance = no berth. Don't recall ever having to show it in France.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I find that outrageous. I would never dream of showing any papers at all to a marina. They are not the police but a private business! They take my money and give me a berth, the police state part they ought to leave to government agencies - which is bad enough!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I am surprised you find that outrageous.

Personally, I would rather berth in a marina where I was confident that all the other boats were insured.

Furthermore, I can understand the marina wanting to ensure that any damage caused due to the negligence of a visiting skipper is at least recoverable from the boat's insurer.

And finally, as I understand it, many European countries 'require' the marina to collect local charges on their behalf. Port police charges in parts of Greece comes to mind.

Still, it's nice to know we don't all the share the same viewpoint.

Alan

 

[Ardelloeixe]

jenku wrote: "I do carry third party, but that does not keep me from opposing it being a legal requirement. Also I do strongly oppose private businesses playing cops and I'd rather go somewhere else than show anything more than a credit card to a marina. I don't need to show papers to use a parking lot either or do I in Britain? "

With your way of thinking I am sure you will be refuse a berth in many Marinas and Clubs, in Spain and also in many other countries.

In Spain thirth part insurance is compulsory, the same as with your car and, normaly, the Marinas and Clubs wants to see your boat register and insurance.
If you refused to do so, they they will not allow you to use a berth in the Marina/Club.

The boat register papers are to know whose boat is it and its length. Also to be sure the boat is not a stolen one.
The third part insurance is to be sure that, if you cause any damage to the Marina/Club, or other boat, there is somebody to charge, either you or your insurance Company.

So long.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I regularly had to show insurance in Spanish marinas, last year. No inusrance = no berth. Don't recall ever having to show it in France.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I find that outrageous. I would never dream of showing any papers at all to a marina. They are not the police but a private business! They take my money and give me a berth, the police state part they ought to leave to government agencies - which is bad enough!!

[/ QUOTE ]

For most UK marinas, having a minimum 3rd part cover (usually £2,000,000) is a part of your contract with the marina. Overnight stays must be harder for them to police, but I suspect it is part of the T&Cs that no-one ever reads! No insurance = no berth!

 

[DownWest]

Not applicable in this case, but 3rd party is compusory over 6mtrsLOA in Spanish waters. At 24ft, it's a must. Dunno about the fines, but they could impound your boat.
A

 

[jenku]

[ QUOTE ]

In Spain thirth part insurance is compulsory, the same as with your car and, normaly, the Marinas and Clubs wants to see your boat register and insurance.
If you refused to do so, they they will not allow you to use a berth in the Marina/Club.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the worst bit, really. If it is compulsory then there is no reason for the marina to check it. They are not the police!! Car parking lots don't check insurance do they? So what's different with boats?

I read from your (and other posters) answer that we are talking about completely different things. You are arguing that insurance is a good thing to have, which I do not oppose. What I do oppose is private businesses playing law enforcement.
So it's perfectly fine to require you to have insurance, put it in the contract or whatever, but not to check the papers. Business relations should be based on mutual trust. You don't check the marina's insurance do you?
I think I may just do that if asked.

"OK I let you see mine if you show me yours!!"

 

[maxi77]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

In Spain thirth part insurance is compulsory, the same as with your car and, normaly, the Marinas and Clubs wants to see your boat register and insurance.
If you refused to do so, they they will not allow you to use a berth in the Marina/Club.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the worst bit, really. If it is compulsory then there is no reason for the marina to check it. They are not the police!! Car parking lots don't check insurance do they? So what's different with boats?

I read from your (and other posters) answer that we are talking about completely different things. You are arguing that insurance is a good thing to have, which I do not oppose. What I do oppose is private businesses playing law enforcement.
So it's perfectly fine to require you to have insurance, put it in the contract or whatever, but not to check the papers. Business relations should be based on mutual trust. You don't check the marina's insurance do you?
I think I may just do that if asked.

"OK I let you see mine if you show me yours!!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Most businesses in most countries do have to display their current insurance cover.

I cannot see how you can object to an organisation wishing to be assured that you are able to cover through insurance damage to weither their or any of their customers property. Sadly it is a fact of life as others here have reported that some boats dissapear leaving a trail of damage and no insurance details. Equally whther you like it or not in some places places like hotels, marinas etc are legally obliged to make such checks that various laws are complied with. It is of course your choice as to whether you visit such places, but what ever ones own beliefs when in Rome etc is often tha path of least resistance and most pleasure.

 

[Ardelloeixe]

Let us see, jenku.
When you check into a hotel you are asked to indentified yourself by any means, passport, etc.
Do you ask the hotel clerk to show you his/her passport?

Cheers

 

[jenku]

[ QUOTE ]
Let us see, jenku.
When you check into a hotel you are asked to indentified yourself by any means, passport, etc.
Do you ask the hotel clerk to show you his/her passport?

Cheers

[/ QUOTE ]

I do find that objectionable as well, in fact. However, I realise most people feel quite comfortable living in a surveillance society so it's a real uphill struggle... And now we'll have fingerprints in passports as well and you'll soon have your e-borders. What a world we live in...

 

[Tranona]

It might be nice to live in your idealistic world of trust and non-surveillance. However, such a world disappeared long ago.

However this situation does not fit well with this discussion. the two clear issue are insuring against your unlimited personal liabilities. it is not unreasonable for a marina in this instance to insist on this to protect their own interests and that of their other "third party" clients. The second is the relationship between the marina and the official authorities. It is quite normal in many countries in Europe to require host organisations such as hotels nad marinas to keep a record of their "guests" and report movements in accordance with their local laws. You may not like the laws, but you cannot ignore them.

On the other hand the best news this week is that our wonderful government has finally abandoned its policy of ID cards for everybody - after the expenditure of XXX millions on pilot systems. There also seems to be a weakening in enthusiasm for E borders. so some hope for those like me who are with you about the perfect world where we can live our lives and freely move about without being answerable to anybody!

 

[jenku]

[ QUOTE ]
It might be nice to live in your idealistic world of trust and non-surveillance. However, such a world disappeared long ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

But who made it disappear? There is less crime today than in the 18th century. All of this security hysteria is not based on facts at all. It's mainly about what is possible now due to technology.

[ QUOTE ]


However this situation does not fit well with this discussion. the two clear issue are insuring against your unlimited personal liabilities. it is not unreasonable for a marina in this instance to insist on this to protect their own interests and that of their other "third party" clients. The second is the relationship between the marina and the official authorities. It is quite normal in many countries in Europe to require host organisations such as hotels nad marinas to keep a record of their "guests" and report movements in accordance with their local laws. You may not like the laws, but you cannot ignore them.



[/ QUOTE ]

I think it does fit, it's all part of a whole. And I am not ignoring laws, but reserve the right to "find them outrageous", which is what started this thread-drift to begin with.

[ QUOTE ]


On the other hand the best news this week is that our wonderful government has finally abandoned its policy of ID cards for everybody - after the expenditure of XXX millions on pilot systems. There also seems to be a weakening in enthusiasm for E borders. so some hope for those like me who are with you about the perfect world where we can live our lives and freely move about without being answerable to anybody!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you. It's a start. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif