AndieMac
Well-Known Member
Wow fellas that is some service, no wonder the marina costs are so high in Med. Thats a lot of mouths to feed!
Docking Skills
- Thread starter Harpsden
- Start date
oceandrive
Well-Known Member
I have found that in most places in the med you will get a good marinero service, for instance a visiting boat Polencia Mallorca if you call them on arrival you will get a couple of marineros on Mopeds who will catch your lines and sort out your paperwork on the quay side. same in most places. Italy and Portugal seems even better with marineros in ribs and on shore, so they pull up your bow line / ground line and pass up to the bow. In very high winds with big boats 100'+ they will even hold your bow in the wind to save your bow thruster.
Best of all Villa Mora Portugal they have lines from mooring piles and as you back between the piles a rib comes in from each side with port and starboard lines. I have a picture of this I will try to find.
Best of all Villa Mora Portugal they have lines from mooring piles and as you back between the piles a rib comes in from each side with port and starboard lines. I have a picture of this I will try to find.
Gobbycat
New Member
Good job there was no-one walking down the pontoon
jfm
Well-Known Member
Yes, to be fair, some in SofF will hand you the ground lines from a RIB. I just haven't seen them race down your side decks in France.
What you describe in Villamoura is how they do it in IYCA Antibes, but not the rest of Antibes.
In Port of Monaco the ground lines are not tailed to the quay or to buoys. A diver will go and pick up the ground lines from the bottom (8m in places) and hand them to you. If you are big enough to use an anchor in Port of Monaco, when you depart the diver will hand you a temporary ground line then go down and attach an airbag to your anchor(s) so you can wind it(them) in and stow. This avoids tangling other anchors, a la St Tropez chain spaghetti. I have pictures of that, have posted on here.
The best/worst i had was Elba, Portoferreiro, 2 years ago. The dock guy was uber keen to hand me the ground line while I was still reversing into the slot. He pulled the lazy line tight and held it high and sideways. It wound round my prop. I was convinced he did it deliberately but didn't accuse him. He then happened to know of a diver who could come in 5 mins, for €100. Turns out the diver was his brother!
What you describe in Villamoura is how they do it in IYCA Antibes, but not the rest of Antibes.
In Port of Monaco the ground lines are not tailed to the quay or to buoys. A diver will go and pick up the ground lines from the bottom (8m in places) and hand them to you. If you are big enough to use an anchor in Port of Monaco, when you depart the diver will hand you a temporary ground line then go down and attach an airbag to your anchor(s) so you can wind it(them) in and stow. This avoids tangling other anchors, a la St Tropez chain spaghetti. I have pictures of that, have posted on here.
The best/worst i had was Elba, Portoferreiro, 2 years ago. The dock guy was uber keen to hand me the ground line while I was still reversing into the slot. He pulled the lazy line tight and held it high and sideways. It wound round my prop. I was convinced he did it deliberately but didn't accuse him. He then happened to know of a diver who could come in 5 mins, for €100. Turns out the diver was his brother!
Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
the thick line that you cleat to your bow the "ground line"
round here its called the slime line for obvious reasons
round here its called the slime line for obvious reasons
oceandrive
Well-Known Member
Yes I have experienced the Monaco thing and like you thought that the berth it's self was cheep!!!! Until they asked that I berthed on Anchor. I did this and as you say they then brought me a bow line attached to an apropriate mooring block all was fine. the divers mate then said lift your anchor??? Due to this being my first time in Monaco I was confused thinking that I had to drag in 30 mtrs of chain and anchor with my anchor winch!!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif The divers mate said no no he is standing on the bottom with your anchor which he has dragged back under your bow. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Talk about men of steel. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Then came the bill which was about the same as the charge for the berth handed to me by a wet diver covered in mud /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gifand everything else you find at the bottom of a marina, /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif the bill went straight in the bin rather than my nice clean accounts file. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Must also agree I have had some very suspect pulling over of ground lines as well. I just drive back out!
Must also agree I have had some very suspect pulling over of ground lines as well. I just drive back out!
jfm
Well-Known Member
Yup, quite a palaver. The first boat I ever took into Port of Monaco left me very embarassed. They insisted I drop the anchor at the spot they were pointing to, then back in. Well it's a good 8m in the middle and this boat was a 40footer or something, and the owner had forgot to spec extra anchor chain. So I did as instructed but ran out of chain 20m from the dock!
Here is an anchor being brought in, in Monaco. The anchor is being suspended from the float that you can see, and handled by divers. The yacht's anchor winch is winding it in slowly. It's a 600kg stainless steel anchor. The boat is being held temporarily in place by a ground line on the starboard side.
Here is an anchor being brought in, in Monaco. The anchor is being suspended from the float that you can see, and handled by divers. The yacht's anchor winch is winding it in slowly. It's a 600kg stainless steel anchor. The boat is being held temporarily in place by a ground line on the starboard side.
Pinnacle
Well-Known Member
Pic of M5?
MapisM
Well-Known Member
I fail to see why this should avoid tangling other anchors, compared to a normal anchor lift.
Possibly the whole point is that if the anchor chain IS actually crossed with another one (which can happen regardless of divers and anchor airbags), they can deal with it while the boat is still secured?
Is so, I wouldn't be impressed by a megayacht captain/crew who couldn't sort out an anchor lifted with another chain tangled to it...
Possibly the whole point is that if the anchor chain IS actually crossed with another one (which can happen regardless of divers and anchor airbags), they can deal with it while the boat is still secured?
Is so, I wouldn't be impressed by a megayacht captain/crew who couldn't sort out an anchor lifted with another chain tangled to it...
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
I wonder what OH&S/workplace safety would make of those guys playing around with the anchors and airbags. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
The term 'slime line' would have to be right, especially if not tailed back to shore. I suppose its the only way to do it, shore space is a premium.
The term 'slime line' would have to be right, especially if not tailed back to shore. I suppose its the only way to do it, shore space is a premium.
jfm
Well-Known Member
It does avoid tangles. If the chain of the anchor A being weighed is under another arrived-later chain B, the diver lifts B and this allows A to pass underneath, so boat B isn't disturbed. Sure, it involves attaching/detaching airbags to both chain B and anchor A, but that's how they do it.
Ref a s/yacht captain being able to do this without a diver, I'm not sure I understnad what you propose. It's possible sometimes but not always, and certianly not much in St Trop or Monaco. Let's say your boat has 2 anchors out, 200kg each. Mirabella 5 came in later and her chain has crossed one of yours, with a 600kg anchor. How exactly do you pull your anchor in sans diver?! You plainly cannot lift your chain and pull M5's chain up "tangled to it". And, as with most ports, you are not allowed to dive (and wouldn't wish to)
Ref a s/yacht captain being able to do this without a diver, I'm not sure I understnad what you propose. It's possible sometimes but not always, and certianly not much in St Trop or Monaco. Let's say your boat has 2 anchors out, 200kg each. Mirabella 5 came in later and her chain has crossed one of yours, with a 600kg anchor. How exactly do you pull your anchor in sans diver?! You plainly cannot lift your chain and pull M5's chain up "tangled to it". And, as with most ports, you are not allowed to dive (and wouldn't wish to)
jfm
Well-Known Member
Yup, M5, the morning she set out for that Discovery Channel helicopter shoot that's been on the TV loads, and the performance comparison* against Maltese Falcon.
*Not "race"
*Not "race"
MapisM
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sure, it involves attaching/detaching airbags to both chain B and anchor A, but that's how they do it.
[/ QUOTE ]Blimey, sounds like a helluva job, as I understand:
1) airbag to chain B, lifted a few feets;
2) airbag to anchor A, winch winding in;
3) anchor A dropped when it reaches chain B;
4) airbag A detached and re-attached the other side of chain B
5) anchor A finally weighed.
My way to do that has always been ('A' being my anchor):
1) winch winding in while the boat moves forward;
2) when chain B appears above the surface tangled to anchor A, secure it to a cleat with a line;
3) weigh anchor A, release the line, job done.
I understand your point when weights (thus also winches) are very different, though.
And obviously I couldn't do the above if chain B would be of M5, with a 600kg anchor...
But usually boats are moored near others of similar size.
Never had problems so far with my 2.000 kg winch anyway.
At worst, I pulled the boat B around a little bit!... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Sure, it involves attaching/detaching airbags to both chain B and anchor A, but that's how they do it.
[/ QUOTE ]Blimey, sounds like a helluva job, as I understand:
1) airbag to chain B, lifted a few feets;
2) airbag to anchor A, winch winding in;
3) anchor A dropped when it reaches chain B;
4) airbag A detached and re-attached the other side of chain B
5) anchor A finally weighed.
My way to do that has always been ('A' being my anchor):
1) winch winding in while the boat moves forward;
2) when chain B appears above the surface tangled to anchor A, secure it to a cleat with a line;
3) weigh anchor A, release the line, job done.
I understand your point when weights (thus also winches) are very different, though.
And obviously I couldn't do the above if chain B would be of M5, with a 600kg anchor...
But usually boats are moored near others of similar size.
Never had problems so far with my 2.000 kg winch anyway.
At worst, I pulled the boat B around a little bit!... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jfm
Well-Known Member
Yes, 1-5 is exactly how they do it. 2 divers, 2 dive boats, with boat driver in each, and from rough memory having watched it 3-4 times it takes say 45minutes to do 2 anchors on M5.
I agree with your method on smaller boats. But when the anchors are these several hundred kilo weights, or the tangles are complex (St Trop being the worst becuase it is concave curved quay wall so the anchor patterns look like spokes on bicycle wheel but not meeting quite in the middle) you have to use divers. I was just picking a fight /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif over your blanket comment that a captian/crew who need diver are not doing a good job - that isn't true/fair comment on very big boats or St Trop berths
I agree with your method on smaller boats. But when the anchors are these several hundred kilo weights, or the tangles are complex (St Trop being the worst becuase it is concave curved quay wall so the anchor patterns look like spokes on bicycle wheel but not meeting quite in the middle) you have to use divers. I was just picking a fight /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif over your blanket comment that a captian/crew who need diver are not doing a good job - that isn't true/fair comment on very big boats or St Trop berths
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
Don't worry jfm, I think Mapis enjoys a good fight! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Don't worry andiemac, I'm sure jfm didn't worry at all!... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
Even though I say so myself I was pretty pleased with my docking skills yesterday.
A couple of months ago I put my friends squaddie 59 into the lift out bay, using just the one engine and bow thruster, which was reasonably challenging.
Yesterday she was due back in to be put back on her berth sadly still with just one engine. He and another friend were going to do the deed, however as I walked round out of curiousity to witness the event and assist if required, I noticed the boat back in the water and the crane leaving, and my friend hurriedly approaching me.
Turns out neither engine would start, and the Marina would not let the boat stay in the lift out bay. (so obliging some times the Spanish) He asked if I could tow her. They managed to pull her via long ropes, out the bay and alongside the quay.
I came alongside in my P56, which as it turns out is somewhat lighter than the squaddie, mine weighs about 17-18, whereas the squaddie weighed in at 28 tons.
Having secured the two vessels aft midshifts and bow, we jointly thrusted our collective bows away from the quay and I proceeded to slowly tow her round to the berth, side by side.
There was a double gap, the squaddies and his neighbour, stern too moorings remember no handy pontoons.
I managed to turn both boats at the gap, and reverse both boats simultaneously into the hole first attempt, rather pleased I was.. :~)
A couple of months ago I put my friends squaddie 59 into the lift out bay, using just the one engine and bow thruster, which was reasonably challenging.
Yesterday she was due back in to be put back on her berth sadly still with just one engine. He and another friend were going to do the deed, however as I walked round out of curiousity to witness the event and assist if required, I noticed the boat back in the water and the crane leaving, and my friend hurriedly approaching me.
Turns out neither engine would start, and the Marina would not let the boat stay in the lift out bay. (so obliging some times the Spanish) He asked if I could tow her. They managed to pull her via long ropes, out the bay and alongside the quay.
I came alongside in my P56, which as it turns out is somewhat lighter than the squaddie, mine weighs about 17-18, whereas the squaddie weighed in at 28 tons.
Having secured the two vessels aft midshifts and bow, we jointly thrusted our collective bows away from the quay and I proceeded to slowly tow her round to the berth, side by side.
There was a double gap, the squaddies and his neighbour, stern too moorings remember no handy pontoons.
I managed to turn both boats at the gap, and reverse both boats simultaneously into the hole first attempt, rather pleased I was.. :~)
AndieMac
Well-Known Member
Well done Sun-coast, thats a fairly big chunk of fibreglass to move about.
Much sweat on the hands when it was all over? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Much sweat on the hands when it was all over? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Renegade_Master
Well-Known Member
No sweat Andie. Big suprise though, blow me down the owner took me out for a meal that evening, (he dont normally spend much you see)