Do YOU use roller reefing?

[Lakesailor]

Small boat, day sailing, single handed, from swinging mooring.
Tried both. Hank on is a pain. Roller so much easier. Had both reefing and furling systems, but only used them as furlers.
Being able to sail up to the mooring and furl the sail in a couple of seconds made the whole procedure much easier. Especially as the small foredeck was then clear for mooring.
Leaving the mooring is easier as well if you can leave deploying the headsail until you are on the tack you want. Otherwise you are into rigging a slipping mooring line and timing it for when the boat has yawed the way you need and you have been able to back the headsail to get the right heading.

For just ambling about the slight lack of pointing is irrelevant. Not clonking a nearby boat is much more important.

(Yeah, I know you can use your motor)

 

[SvenH]

Boat had furlex when I bought her. All sails were non furling types, so probably used for racing.
After changing sail took 45 minutes during (anchoring required...) my first encouter with wind dying down I decided to ditch the furler and have not looked back since.

Can now change sail on the go in 15 mins. with the windvane steering.

 

[Greenheart]

Boat had furlex when I bought her...changing sail took 45 minutes...I decided to ditch the furler and have not looked back since. Can now change sail on the go in 15 mins.

Not sure I understand. Is 15 minutes to change a headsail, meant to be good? Sounds like a royal pain in the neck compared with under 15 seconds, pulling on a reefing line.

Small boat, day sailing, single handed, from swinging mooring...Being able to sail up to the mooring and furl the sail in a couple of seconds made the whole procedure much easier. Especially as the small foredeck was then clear for mooring.

Single-handing a big dinghy, a roller-furling genoa is a boon. My full sail-plan is far too much for me in over force 2...being able to remove a third of it in seconds, is fabulous.

Arriving on a steep beach in breakers with an onshore breeze, I drop the main 100 yards out then come in under genoa, rolling it away into blissful silence about ten yards out...

...so there's ample time for the considerable task of preventing the boat slamming the shingle, without having to point her head-to-wind. Lowering the headsail took longer and left much more tidying-away...and the flogging sail usually ended up in the water.

The boat can make headway to windward under genoa alone...so being able to unroll the sail spontaneously as I step aboard, makes launching infinitely slicker than it was before.

Mine may be an extreme case but having fitted one, I wouldn't enjoy sailing my boat without the roller now. I expect others here would find their enjoyment similarly reduced.

 

[SvenH]

Sails are NON furling types, furler only used for setting removing, not for reefing.

 

[charles_reed]

Bearing in mind that, by your subsequent elucidation, you were enquiring about mainsails, I fear many have answered the wrong question.

Having had both roller and hank-on sails in the fore-triangle I am unable to understand anyone who prefers all hank-on sails (of which I still have one, regularly used, with too long a luff to fit the roller foil).

Because in mast furling requires a straight mast no self-respecting fractional rig could consider such a fitting.
We all know that Bavarias sport a 7/8 rig, in imitation of Ford Escorts fitted with go-faster stripes instead of Costin & Duckworth modded motors, and have in-mast roller reefing.

 

[Greenheart]

Bearing in mind that, by your subsequent elucidation, you were enquiring about mainsails, I fear many have answered the wrong question.

Whose elucidation, Mr Reed? I don't think Boreades has made comment here, since starting the thread. If he did only mean mainsails, he must be holding his head in his hands with despair, at his own inability to phrase the question he wants us to reply to!

 

[onesea]

Not sure I understand. Is 15 minutes to change a headsail, meant to be good? Sounds like a royal pain in the neck compared with under 15 seconds, pulling on a reefing line.

The Foiled head sail on my boat realistically ads on 15 minutes work to my days sailing and if I have to change head-sails its probably another 15 by the time its packed.

Is it worth it hell yes the advantage of having a good shape of sail once you start reefing is outstanding, often we forget the No 1 altogether and go straight for the No 3 (you can see round it so much easier and allot less jib to pull in).

Horses for courses but I think many would drop roller reefing head-sails if they gave it a chance..

 

[Greenheart]

The foiled headsail on my boat realistically adds 15 minutes work to my days sailing and if I have to change head-sails its probably another 15 by the time its packed. Is it worth it? Hell yes, the advantage of having a good shape of sail once you start reefing is outstanding...

I believe it. I can see that there's everything to be gained from retaining pointing ability when the weather breezes up...but I expect most yachtsmen sail mainly in force 4 or less, when the effortless convenience (and time-saving) of a big roller genoa isn't something they'll pass up, for occasional benefit.

I wonder if the advantages of both systems could be combined? I'm thinking, a furling full-size genoa on the outermost position...no attempt to use it in reduced form...

...and deck eyes/halyards located at the right points to allow a 75% or 50% fore-triangle to be set, allowing perfect steering balance and sail shape, if the skipper cares to bother?

 

[prv]

I wonder if the advantages of both systems could be combined? I'm thinking, a furling full-size genoa on the outermost position...no attempt to use it in reduced form...

...and deck eyes/halyards located at the right points to allow a 75% or 50% fore-triangle to be set, allowing perfect steering balance and sail shape, if the skipper cares to bother?

The problem with that idea is that you then can't tack the genoa without rolling it up to get it past the inner forestay. However, some people do put up with this limitation and have the ugly-named "Slutter" rig, where you set the big light outer genoa for long legs in moderate wind, and for beating and stronger winds unroll a working jib on the inner roller. I guess the inner one could be hank-on if you wanted though I think that's rarely seen. The inner jib is quite often self-tacking, thus making for a very easy upwind option.

Pete

 

[Greenheart]

That's just what I didn't mean, Pete...to my eyes the slutter rig looks as bad and awkward as the name sounds.

Deck eyes and halyards would allow folding sails to be used when required, and stowed below when not...while the outer genoa needn't be obstructed by a permanent inner stay.

As you say, it's rarely seen...but why? It'd offer the benefits of both ways of doing it.

 

[prv]

Deck eyes and halyards would allow folding sails to be used when required, and stowed below when not

Oh - so are you talking about setting it flying, without a stay?

Two main problems there. First, getting as much tension on the luff as you would have on a wire stay. I daresay it's possible with modern materials and fittings, but it's certainly not easy, and will need more than just the conventional arrangement of halyard and winch.

Second, trying to tame the thing on its way up or down when there's no stay or luff foil for it to slide on. I imagine in any breeze, as soon as you had a few square metres of it up, the rest would yank itself out of your hands and turn into a big curved bag off to leeward, sheets flailing madly (flailing sheets have smashed a dorade box clean off my deck before) while whoever's on the halyard slowly winches it back towards the centreline, praying it doesn't take a turn round spreader ends or whatever.

All-flying jibs work on dinghies because they're small compared to the manpower available, and on traditional cutters because they can be blanketed by the staysail (though in fact they're very often roller furled and have been since the 1890s). The traditional version also needs to be cut by someone who understands gaff rig so they they can build it with a hollow luff to take account of the lack of tension.

Pete

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks Pete, that's an excellent reason why it can't be made to work aboard a yacht, as simply as it does on my dinghy...but would it be prohibitive to attach an inner stay to a halyard, then winch it really bar-tight, giving a temporary wire stay for a bigger headsail to be hoisted up?