shmoo
New member
[No message]
Do you say pass it to port (or left) or leave it to starboard (right)
- Thread starter shmoo
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dt4134
New member
I normally say leave it to port/starboard (and have voted that way). That's the way the marks are described on a race card and I have picked up the habit from there.
BelleSerene
Active member
Re: Do you say pass it to port (or left) or leave it to starboard (rig
Only the latter can make sense. It's the boat that has port & starboard sides, not you. That's why P&S removes ambiguity: regardless of which way you're facing and which way the person you're talking to is facing, Port is still the boat's left-hand side.
So 'leave it to...' means leave the obstruction to that side OF YOUR BOAT. No room for confusion there.
Now, what could 'pass it to port' mean? If you're leaving the obstruction to starboard, it's got nothing to do with the port side. It only has anything to do with the OTHER BOAT's port side if it's facing the same way as you are (otherwise, the boats' starboard sides are passing each other). So you're introducing ambiguity of whether you mean YOUR boat's starboard side or the OTHER boat's starboard side. (To say 'pass him by HIS starboard side' would make sense, but why confuse the person you're talking to?)
Keep it simple and clear. You don't have a starboard - a boat does. If you mean the OTHER boat's starboard side you owe it to your mate to say so, otherwise you're confusing him. So it's only sensible to refer to YOUR boat's starboard side. So 'pass it to port' is not just confusing - it's misinstructing your mate. Which is why 'leave it to starboard' is not just an obscure marine convention: it's the only way of clearly saying what you mean.
Only the latter can make sense. It's the boat that has port & starboard sides, not you. That's why P&S removes ambiguity: regardless of which way you're facing and which way the person you're talking to is facing, Port is still the boat's left-hand side.
So 'leave it to...' means leave the obstruction to that side OF YOUR BOAT. No room for confusion there.
Now, what could 'pass it to port' mean? If you're leaving the obstruction to starboard, it's got nothing to do with the port side. It only has anything to do with the OTHER BOAT's port side if it's facing the same way as you are (otherwise, the boats' starboard sides are passing each other). So you're introducing ambiguity of whether you mean YOUR boat's starboard side or the OTHER boat's starboard side. (To say 'pass him by HIS starboard side' would make sense, but why confuse the person you're talking to?)
Keep it simple and clear. You don't have a starboard - a boat does. If you mean the OTHER boat's starboard side you owe it to your mate to say so, otherwise you're confusing him. So it's only sensible to refer to YOUR boat's starboard side. So 'pass it to port' is not just confusing - it's misinstructing your mate. Which is why 'leave it to starboard' is not just an obscure marine convention: it's the only way of clearly saying what you mean.
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Re: Do you say pass it to port (or left) or leave it to starboard (rig
Couldn't agree more, there is no place for the terms "left" or "right" on a boat, unless you are talking about your own body parts.
Couldn't agree more, there is no place for the terms "left" or "right" on a boat, unless you are talking about your own body parts.
shmoo
New member
Re: Do you say pass it to port (or left) or leave it to starboard (rig
I should have made the question clearer. It wasn't really meant to be about left/right but about "Pass it on..." or "Leave it to..."
I always say "Leave it to..." but I don't remember why.
I should have made the question clearer. It wasn't really meant to be about left/right but about "Pass it on..." or "Leave it to..."
I always say "Leave it to..." but I don't remember why.
C
Chrusty1
Guest
Re: Do you say pass it to port (or left) or leave it to starboard (rig
Begging your pardon Cap'n!........It's a bit early for a BOF like me! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I would be saying leave it to.
Begging your pardon Cap'n!........It's a bit early for a BOF like me! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I would be saying leave it to.
BelleSerene
Active member
Re: Do you say pass it to port (or left) or leave it to starboard (rig
Granted. The reason is as in my posting above.
Granted. The reason is as in my posting above.
Danny Jo
Active member
If someone asked me to "pass it to port", I would politely request clarification.
Alex_Blackwood
Well-known member
Always pass the Port to the left!
dancingwithmoons
New member
So do you pass the duchie from the left hand side
As in the immortal lyric from Musical Youff
As in the immortal lyric from Musical Youff
Nico
Member
I once asked a skipper what he meant when he talked about a port rounding of a racing mark. Did he mean leaving the mark to our port side (he did) or us going to the port (left) side of the mark? He pointed out that marks don't have a port, starboard, or any other side. I've never been confused over the issue since and whether you say leave it to port/starboard or pass it to port/starboard it means the same thing. I think "leave it" is much the clearer of the two expressions.
shmoo
New member
Thanks to all. Once again Scuttlebutt University has come up trumps.
johnalison
Well-known member
I seem to remember reading in a very old Reed's ('70's) something about it being illegal, presumably on commercial-sized vessels, to use the words "left" or "right" in an order the helm. I don't know if this is true, but have tried hard to adhere to proper practice.
Alfie168
Well-known member
Not sure why it should cause any confusion. Pass to Port and Leave to Port have always been interchangeable terms entirely up to the preference of the skipper. I've heard both in use and never felt it was an issue. If in doubt, then ask what the skipper means.
In racing instructions you may well read the term 'round the windward mark to port'. or the simple 'leave all marks to port' is used. I've never had a problem any which way...which is not to say that I havn't forgotten the racing instructions and got it wrong for other reasons (well..when you are that far behind nobody notices if you keep quiet /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
If we have a non boaty on board I may use the term left/right to help them short term, but as other have said. left and right can vary depending on which way you are facing. Port and Starboard never can.
Tim
In racing instructions you may well read the term 'round the windward mark to port'. or the simple 'leave all marks to port' is used. I've never had a problem any which way...which is not to say that I havn't forgotten the racing instructions and got it wrong for other reasons (well..when you are that far behind nobody notices if you keep quiet /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
If we have a non boaty on board I may use the term left/right to help them short term, but as other have said. left and right can vary depending on which way you are facing. Port and Starboard never can.
Tim
shmoo
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Pass to Port and Leave to Port have always been interchangeable
[/ QUOTE ]
Just reassure me you mean different things by "Pass to Port" and "Leave to Port", i.e. "Pass to Port" being the interchangeable with "Leave to Starboard"
Pass to Port and Leave to Port have always been interchangeable
[/ QUOTE ]
Just reassure me you mean different things by "Pass to Port" and "Leave to Port", i.e. "Pass to Port" being the interchangeable with "Leave to Starboard"
Nico
Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pass to Port and Leave to Port have always been interchangeable
[/ QUOTE ]
Just reassure me you mean different things by "Pass to Port" and "Leave to Port", i.e. "Pass to Port" being the interchangeable with "Leave to Starboard"
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would "pass to port" mean "leave to starboard"? Whose port are you talking about if it is your starboard? Are you talking about another boat facing the same way as you that you are overtaking? That is the only way I can imagine a port and a starboard being involved in a passing manoeuvre.
Pass to port means the same as leave to port.
[ QUOTE ]
Pass to Port and Leave to Port have always been interchangeable
[/ QUOTE ]
Just reassure me you mean different things by "Pass to Port" and "Leave to Port", i.e. "Pass to Port" being the interchangeable with "Leave to Starboard"
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would "pass to port" mean "leave to starboard"? Whose port are you talking about if it is your starboard? Are you talking about another boat facing the same way as you that you are overtaking? That is the only way I can imagine a port and a starboard being involved in a passing manoeuvre.
Pass to port means the same as leave to port.
Alfie168
Well-known member
Port is one side of my boat, and nothing else. So Pass to Port means leave the buoy on the port side of my boat. Leave to Port means exactly the same. The Buoy could have many ports/starboards relative to the position of the boats approaching it, but there is NO question as to which side of my boat is Port and which is Starboard, so the boat is the reference and not the buoy.
Thanks Nico. Its not just me failing to quite see Schmoos point.
Tim
Thanks Nico. Its not just me failing to quite see Schmoos point.
Tim
NealB
Well-known member
I'm very intrigued by the notion of a buoy having even one port or starboard side, let alone 'many'.
I definitely agree with those who find ambiguity in the phrase "pass to port". Glad to say that I don't recall ever having heard it!
I definitely agree with those who find ambiguity in the phrase "pass to port". Glad to say that I don't recall ever having heard it!
Alfie168
Well-known member
So if you interpret 'pass to port' to mean pass the port side of the buoy..then you know there is something wrong as we have established that the bouy is neutral and cannot have a port or starboard..so 'pass to port' must mean something else, and there can only be one something else which is pass it on your port side.
I've never had cause to feel it is ambiguous until this thread, so I am learning something, but neither am I advocating its use either. Its just always been a non-issue for me as I understood either terminology and thought it was two ways of saying the same thing.
Tim
I've never had cause to feel it is ambiguous until this thread, so I am learning something, but neither am I advocating its use either. Its just always been a non-issue for me as I understood either terminology and thought it was two ways of saying the same thing.
Tim
NealB
Well-known member
The ambiguity arises when we're talking of another vessel, rather than a buoy.
