Do yachties need to clean up their acts?

[rudolph_hart]

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Certainly in the days of 'dirty' sewage outfalls, you could barely see the water for seagulls feeding.

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Not much change there, then.

You can still see the feeding frenzy in the brown stain above the 'offshore' diffusers near Harwich (for the Continent) mid-way between Clacton and Frinton (for the incontinent) /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: fuel usage

[ QUOTE ]
The real big lumps of fuel get used making a boat, not the much small qtys used in propelling it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I've seen that argument on the forum before, but I do wonder how true it is. In the case of a boat with small engines I'm sure it's true. However some boat engines are using vast amounts of fuel and there must be a point at which the fuel consumption in moving the things becomes greater than the fuel consumption of manufacture. In any event I find it very difficult to justify the fuel usage, measured in tonnes, which some leisure boats achieve.

If, as you say, many of these boats only clock up 100 hours per annum that explains why they are always tied up in the marina!

 

[Lakesailor]

Bollocks.
Whilst airliners continue to circle the globe because someone wants to holiday on the Pacific rim rather than the Lake District I am not going to get guilty about a bit of honest pollution.

 

[abraxus]

Re: fuel usage

Hard to justify Joe, I totally agree, but dangerous to prevent.

If as as relatively low fuel user, you support efforts to reduce fuel usage, partly because you see a benefit and partly because it doesn't effect you, you may well succeed in getting your wish. However all you really succeed in doing is starting a thin end of the wedge process.

Once the large users have been dealt with you'll be next.

To someone who doesn't own any type of boat (the majority) they may see your fule usage and the usage in building your boat as very hard to justify, and want to prevent you as well.

An almost impossible situation really as everyone draws the line a bit above where their needs lie.

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: fuel usage

Ah, the thin end of the wedge argument! It seems to be rolled out every time somebody wants to justify the unjustifiable.

I take the view that we are all fortunate to have boats and that we should exercise responsibilty in persuing our sport. The fuel usage of some vessels is irresponsible and I wouldn't wish to see the image of my hobby spoilt by a few over-indulgent individuals. I wouldn't wish to see them banned, neither do I think that cheap fuel should be made available for them.

 

[Joe_Cole]

Phil,

Of course they are flying off, they are trying to get away from all your polution! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Mirelle]

Yes, perhaps we do

I agree with you about phosphates, etc.

I was quite unaware of Lizzie's point about milk, for example.

There are all sorts of aspects to this - disturbance to habitat, damage by anchors, antifouling, persistent oils...

I'm not saying we are not good, just that I think that we should be as good as we can - its in our own interests.

 

[Lakesailor]

What pollution?

 

[abraxus]

Re: fuel usage

Yes but the thin end of the wedge argument is true.

Authorities of all kinds, by their very nature move on to another target once they've reached their goal.

The fuel usage of some vessels is irresponsible...to you. To others the fuel used to provide your pleasures is irresponsible. It's all a matter of where you're sitting. To a man who only uses fuel to heat his house in winter and cook his food, you may well be seen as an over-indulgent individual.

I do however agree that there is no reason to provide cheap fuel for the purpose.

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: fuel usage

It may just be that what you see as the thin end of the wedge is no more than progress!

I'm sure you are right that some would see my boating as indulgent. They may even be right. However, as we are agreed about fuel costs I think we have already both reached the same conclusions about what needs to be done.

 

[mirabriani]

Hello!
Is Mainly Steam back?

Briani

 

[dralex]

If anything, spending time on a sailing boat is perfect for making you appreciate energy usage and how to be frugal. Imagine spending two weeks on your boat and then compare your energy usage to what you would use at home- it makes you think, and if you're anything like me, a single 60w bulb in a corner suddenly seems like a flood light and heating at 16 degrees seems positively tropical. The small amount of diesel I use on the boat is nothing compared to the diesel I use for work and our fresh water usage is minimal.

On the subject of water, I have no issue with using fresh water given that most water companies leak more than we'll ever use in a lifetime and we live in a country where it rains quite often. It's an infinately renewable resource.

THe majority of boats are individually pretty heavy in environmental terms to build, but then last 40-150 years and have multiple owners. If you chucked the finished with hull in a landfill site, it would either compost down ( wood) or do nothing at all ( GRP). We already get rid of the nasties, and a bit of detergent is insignificant compared to the amount of diesel spilled and slicking in boat moorings.

On balance, I think we're pretty good and sailing makes us more aware of resources.

 

[zefender]

Re: fuel usage

On the radio recently I heard the Editor of Top Gear (so it must be true!) say that the amount of carbons produced by the ship delivering a full load of Volvos far outweighs that produced by all these cars throughout their whole life.

Trouble is (and er oops, I've just done the same thing), whoever has the finger pointed at them for being environmentally unsound, always seems to deflect it to another polluter, rather than agree that nearly everyone should do their bit, cos it probably helps, a bit.

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Well the manufacturers pollution

is away of defusing the power v sail argument. If we see gas guzzling power boats as OK because the manufacturer is to blame for most of the pollution and the fuel is a marginal factor, then the raggies are just as bad because they're manufactured too. Sounds like spin an bollocks to me.

I'm not of the opinion that raggies are particularly innocent in this matter though. These days the number of bits and pieces of manufactured stuff that yotties buy, mechanical, electrical and plastic, that are binned in no time for the latest fashionable thing. The number of yachts hooked up to mains power when not underway, or manned, and the careless discharge of cleaning products and fuel spills means that most of us live in glass houses on this one.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Well the manufacturers pollution

>>>
I do however agree that there is no reason to provide cheap fuel for the purpose.
>>>
But isn't there general agreement, even from non boaters, that fuel is generally too expensive. Boaters are therefore not getting cheap fuel, just correctly priced, while the government fleeces everyone else.

If one of the vaguer propositions on carbon use and credits take place _anything_ you use that has a hydrocarbon content will be involved. So unless you use a strictly wooden boat, hemp and manila cordage with canvas sails you might be afected. Even Jack Aubrey's ships used fossil hydrocarbons and polluted with them, caulking pitch

Mind you, don't lose sight of the fact that if we all went back to wood (no plywood, might use fossil hydrocarbons in the glue), some tree hugging ecowarrior will persuade some politico that "use of trees for leisure purposes is unethical and must be banned". Don't laugh and say it will never happen, ther's many a former hunt employee saying that...

 

[abraxus]

Re: Well the manufacturers pollution

You're rght Andrew, which is why both Sail & Power users should stick together.

History shows that once target is destroyed the next is top of the list. After hunting fishing will be next. Motorcyclists asked for motorist support at the time of crash helmet laws saying seat belts would be next and motorists didn't believe them.

It is the nature of beauracracy to keep itself busy by finding new things to go at. It is important that all fuel users stick together, and lower users not smugly thinking they wont be next on the hit list. It's hard to see fuel costs coming down, so my point on fuel costs is that it's hard to justify cheaper fuel for someone running a boat as a luxury against someone driving a car out of neccessity.

This continual march to legislate everything could easily one day see everyone given a limit on power usage of whatever kind that has to be shared across heating, cooking, fuel, leisure etc.

 

[Stemar]

Re: Well the manufacturers pollution

I bow to no man in my horror of the amount of fuel some pleasure boats guzzle, but let's put it in perspective.

Our rich guy with his 40 fot Pricess maybe uses his engines for 100 hours a year. That's not really a lot of fuel compared to all the Chelsea tractors on the school run.

Now take someone from the other end of sailing. He has a trailor sailer. Because of this, instead of a newish fiesta, he has to have an old landrover to pull it around. I haven't done the sums, but I'll bet the increase in pollution is comparable to the use of the stinky.

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: Well the manufacturers pollution

[ QUOTE ]
. The number of yachts hooked up to mains power when not underway

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that mean that some yachts are hooked up to shore power when they <u>are</u> underway? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

On your main point, I agree. Having followed the red diesel debate from the start there does seem to be a liberal use of red herrings. "Boats use a lot of oil in their manufacture, so it makes no difference what we do." "Aircraft use a lot more fuel, when they sort that out I'll worry about my boat" etc etc.

I also agree that raggies could do more. I do try....honest! (though I refuse to get obsessive about it all!)

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Well the manufacturers pollution

[ QUOTE ]
"Aircraft use a lot more fuel, when they sort that out I'll worry about my boat"

[/ QUOTE ] Red Herring?

 

[Peppermint]

Re: As to your mains point....

I followed a bloke into Cowes last year who was trailing about 10m of orange cable that finished in a blue plug into his stern. So somebody tried to stay hooked up to the mains.

Yer see all sorts if you hang around long enough.