Do we now need an electric boat forum???

[kashurst]

First Candela in Sweden and now Navier in the USA.
The Navier 30 foot electric foiling boat does 75 miles at 20 knots! I wonder what the old school boat builders make of it?

 

[Seastoke]

Will we see your Fairline fly.

 

[kashurst]

Will we see your Fairline fly.

errr, sadly no. pootle about on electricity - maybe.....

 

[dunedin]

First Candela in Sweden and now Navier in the USA.
The Navier 30 foot electric foiling boat does 75 miles at 20 knots! I wonder what the old school boat builders make of it?

There are LOTS more than just these two now electric foiling boats. And lots of electric outboards now coming onto the market.

For an inshore sports dayboat that is kept at home or in a marina, electric and foiling will soon become a no brainer choice. Can have a big but lightweight electric drive to push onto foils, after which uses very little power when up.
Unlike a conventional motor, which if big enough to get lift off is very heavy and uneconomical in flight mode.
And electric tenders and PWCs will soon be the norm.

The issue currently is waves. Most have a low wave tolerance. But with 100 foot foiling sailing boats successfully racing across the Atlantic, and about to race solo around the world, the power boats will catch up pretty fast.

Quite how to reduce the impact of huge floating apartment blocks is a more tricky one however (though all will have electric powered play toys by next season, I suspect).

 

[Mr Googler]

We need a hybrid corniche thread for sure!

 

[Momac]

We don't need a forum for every different propulsion system and energy source

 

[ari]

The range of these electric boats remains the big issue. This one claims 75 miles, but is that with any reserve, or simply until the batteries run out? Assuming the latter, you're going to want, what, 20 miles of reserve? So that's now just over 50 miles. And unless you can charge at your destination, that means your actual 'going somewhere' range is about 25 miles. And that's before you consider 'hotel' loads - lights, air con or heating perhaps, electronics etc, all of which are going to be separately depleting the battery. So 20 miles?

Then, unless the boat is always kept ashore., you need to think about fouling. These range tests are inevitably going to be carried out in perfect weather with a perfectly clean boat. A bit of fouling on IPS drive props can easily knock off 10-20% of efficiency, so it's reasonable to assume that, even if antifouled, fouling on the foils is going to reduce efficiency. So will extra load (tender, more people), so will less than perfect sea conditions, so will natural depletion over time of the batteries, so will head winds.

So five years time, in real life, bit of loading, bit of fouling, bit of weather, what is the range (allowing for coming home) really going to be? 15 miles? 10 miles?

And there are other important considerations, certainly if the BEV market is anything to go by. What's the market for these going to be like when they are 10 years old? What do you do with the battery when it's old and no longer holding sufficient charge? How much is a new battery (and will you still be able to get one that fits this particular application)?

I can definitely see a case for battery powered low speed inland river boats. Indeed I think that's a near perfect situation. Quiet, no issue with battery weight as run at displacement speeds, can charge from shore power when you stop, and boats are naturally far more efficient anyway at displacement speed.

But I think we're a long way off planing or foiling boats being viable for most people in the real world.

 

[dunedin]

……….But I think we're a long way off planing or foiling boats being viable for most people in the real world.

I guess that depends on what you mean by “most people”. I would suspect that most powered craft are not the sort of coastal powerboats with cabins that may be most common on this forum.
There are masses of people with PwCs, SIBs, RIBs, small speedboats and inshore watercraft, all of which could be good candidates for electric and or foiling applications (when buying new - per the recent ICOMIA report, unlikely ever to be viable for a retrofit).
Clearly different for a 10+m flybridge cruiser.

 

[Lodestone]

The electric boat companies seem to have a high churn of sales folk....guess there's a reason.

 

[kashurst]

Candela seem to bemaking progress: 100 of any boat isn't bad going.
Electric Boat - Candela announces the sale of the 100th Candela C8 - Yachting Art Magazine

 

[Fire99]

Electric propulsion in boats is an interesting one to watch. From a battery construction and batt life perspective I'm unconvinced but the simple theory of a quiet, high-torque, low pong, reduced maintenance propulsion for something like a heavy semi-displacement trawler style boat (like mine) has its attraction..

But considering the mess that EV charging is on the road network and the very rudimental nature of a lot of marina electric supplies, I'm also not convinced it's viable any time soon other than for a tiny minority of vessels.

Proof in point. There's a lot of hoo-haa about Artemis the foiling electric boat around Belfast & Bangor in Northern Ireland. But the impact to me was squashed at this stage by the fact it was being charged by a diesel generator on the pier at Bangor.. Ok it's early days but I want to see a practically demonstrable solution and not a 'vanity' project that only really works at this stage in the PR / Advertising.

PS - Obviously this is looking at it from a UK/Ireland perspective.

 

[Bigplumbs]

We don't need a forum for every different propulsion system and energy source

We don’t need electric boats.

 

[Bigplumbs]

There are LOTS more than just these two now electric foiling boats. And lots of electric outboards now coming onto the market.

For an inshore sports dayboat that is kept at home or in a marina, electric and foiling will soon become a no brainer choice. Can have a big but lightweight electric drive to push onto foils, after which uses very little power when up.
Unlike a conventional motor, which if big enough to get lift off is very heavy and uneconomical in flight mode.
And electric tenders and PWCs will soon be the norm.

The issue currently is waves. Most have a low wave tolerance. But with 100 foot foiling sailing boats successfully racing across the Atlantic, and about to race solo around the world, the power boats will catch up pretty fast.

Quite how to reduce the impact of huge floating apartment blocks is a more tricky one however (though all will have electric powered play toys by next season, I suspect).

No brainer indeed. Don’t buy one. Just like Electric cars the infrastructure aint there and never will be

 

[dunedin]

No brainer indeed. Don’t buy one. Just like Electric cars the infrastructure aint there and never will be

In your humble opinion. However there are now nearly 1 million electric vehicles running successfully on UK roads, so your opinion is not shared by at least a million others.
Certainly a LOT less mature for EV boats, but equally sales of electric outboards are now mainstream at smaller end.

 

[jakew009]

Arguably the infrastructure to charge boats is already mostly there in a lot of cases?

Most marinas have decent grid connections and 16A supplies to most of the berths. That’s enough for a 3kW charger. They could relatively easily be upgraded to 32A or 16A three phase as long as they weren’t all being used at the same time.

The Candela has 68kWh battery so yes it takes nearly 24 hours to charge if flat but most boats barely go anywhere anyway. Only 12 hours if on a 32A supply or less again on 16A three phase.

Ok some marinas have neglected the wiring and need to do some upgrades and it won’t work if everyone charges at the same time, but from a practical point of view it doesn’t seem that difficult.

If the marinas can’t get big enough feeds in, they can always run a generator for the couple of bank holiday weekends with good weather when demand exceeds what the grid can supply. There are already campsites out there that do that.

 

[kashurst]

Day boats, ski boats, river and lake boats, jetskis etc etc are all possible - especially hydrofoiling ones
Candela now have a 40 foot hydrofoiling ferry doing service in Stockholm. P-12 – The Fastest Electric Ferry

Really big motor boats will probably not run on batteries but there aren't actually that many in the scheme of things. And there is an easily solution - sails!!!!

 

[Bouba]

At a rough guess…in my neck of the woods, for motorboats up to about fifty foot with tenders, the majority are electric
There are also lots of man made lakes in France that are controlled by EDF, where only electric boats are permitted

 

[Fire99]

In your humble opinion. However there are now nearly 1 million electric vehicles running successfully on UK roads, so your opinion is not shared by at least a million others.
Certainly a LOT less mature for EV boats, but equally sales of electric outboards are now mainstream at smaller end.

I think a fair bit of qualification is needed on this one. Around 2.8% of cars on UK roads are EV's. The National Grid only in the last week were looking at discounting some electric supply to people if they cut usage at peak times due to supply concerns during winter months. We are not a nation in any way able to significantly increase our electricity demands..

EV's 'running successfully' depends really on your usage patterns. Home charger, and predominantly short urban use? Probably working very well. Regular longer distances, relying on public chargers, certainly a different story with much more varied experiences. An interesting recent challenge in two youtube channels GeoffBuysCars and MacMaster did an old BMW diesel vs a Porsche Taycan EV from John O'Groats to Lands End. Very interesting outcomes and highlighted some serious EV issues.

Electric cars currently work to some degree because there are so few of them. Without a complete usage culture change, make EV's even 10 or 20 % of the car network and watch the deck of cards fall down.

Another issue to consider is price per KWh. The nearest car EV charger to the marina is 49p/kWh for slow. 57p/kWh faster and 67p/kWh very fast. That's way way above even top electric supply tarrifs. Looking at those two Youtube channels, leaving aside the EV driver ending up in tears and had a nose bleed AND being over 4 hours late on a 7 hour journey (2nd leg from midlands to LE) it cost the diesel £122.08 in fuel and the EV £259.87 in electricity. Add in smart charging at the marina, what rate will the electricity be at?

Battery life. The average EV battery is estimated to last 10 years. Put some sizeable EV batteries into a boat in let's say some of the harshest environmental conditions, cold, damp, salty air. How long is the battery going to last? How will it be fitted in the boat with a good centralised position for stability? e-Golf in the US, $23000 for a replacement battery. Tesla - $12000-$22000. How will you get it out of the boat?

Yes large diesel boats do have failures and tank failures etc but there are a huge number running 30 year old engines and 30 year old fuel tanks.

Going back to Artemis, the EV work boat. It's 12metres in a workboat layout. How was it charged at the marina? With a diesel generator. That's one single EV workboat.

I can only look at the environment that I tend to work in so this is UK/Ireland specific but shifting to electric in both size of boat and volume of boats is full of issues compared to the novelty one offs and little handheld outboards that can mask the issues.

 

[dunedin]

Arguably the infrastructure to charge boats is already mostly there in a lot of cases?

Most marinas have decent grid connections and 16A supplies to most of the berths. That’s enough for a 3kW charger. They could relatively easily be upgraded to 32A or 16A three phase as long as they weren’t all being used at the same time.

The Candela has 68kWh battery so yes it takes nearly 24 hours to charge if flat but most boats barely go anywhere anyway. Only 12 hours if on a 32A supply or less again on 16A three phase.

Ok some marinas have neglected the wiring and need to do some upgrades and it won’t work if everyone charges at the same time, but from a practical point of view it doesn’t seem that difficult.

If the marinas can’t get big enough feeds in, they can always run a generator for the couple of bank holiday weekends with good weather when demand exceeds what the grid can supply. There are already campsites out there that do that.

Yes, for marina - or home - based boats with small batteries, access to charging should not be too difficult.

Clearly rather more tricky for boats based on moorings, and in places where there are no marinas and anchoring is the norm.

But for many boaters with simple needs and staying close to home berth, the infrastructure issue is not insurmountable.

 

[jakew009]

Yes, for marina - or home - based boats with small batteries, access to charging should not be too difficult.

Clearly rather more tricky for boats based on moorings, and in places where there are no marinas and anchoring is the norm.

But for many boaters with simple needs and staying close to home berth, the infrastructure issue is not insurmountable.

Agreed, clearly a boat left on a mooring is not going to be electric any time soon.
But how many people are going to spend a few hundred grand on an electric day boat and then leave it on a mooring? No one.

The people buying the electric boats will be those with cash to burn who can afford to buy a new petrol powered boat today. They will be storing it in a posh marina and couldn't give a flying fig about the health of the battery in 10 years time.

Planing diesel cruisers will be the last boats to convert to electric propulsion, if ever. In much the same way you will still have diesel powered HGVs driving around for years to come.