do tired old racing style cruisers make sense?

[homa]

I've never sailed on either however I did consider both before buying my present boat.
Both will have probably been raced at some time in their lives so look for excessive wear.
I think Sigma also produced a limited number in a cruising version with shallower draft and shorter rig.

 

[cumbrian]

[ QUOTE ]
Both will have probably been raced at some time in their lives so look for excessive wear.

[/ QUOTE ] which / what "wear" is important?

 

[Tranona]

If you read the Sigma article in April PBO there is a long list of things to watch out for.

 

[homa]

Wear and tear

Where shall we start...
Wear as in...
Sails, running & standing rigging, movement in the chain plates, bulkhead distortion, leaking windows, mast base support, winches, etc etc.
I am not suggesting that any of these will be found but they are things that one should look for in a"tired old racing style cruiser". Even if found they can all be fixed. If the boat has been reasonably maintained you should have no real problems.
Needless to say always, always have a full structural survey. It will more than pay for itself when you come to negotiate on the final price.
I would also recommend asking the surveyor to look for osmosis. If found this can be a great way to knock a big chunk off the asking price. (it worked for me!!)

 

[Aeolus_IV]

Thanks for your appreciation, I tried to keep off the "which ones best" topic as it is a well beaten path which does the rounds periodically. But since you asked /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif why would I suggest anything else other than a Centurion 32!

Happy hunting,
Jeff.

 

[Strathglass]

I have just arrived on the same course but by another route.

I bought an unused old 3/4 ton decked hull (Petersen) and with a lot of work, time and money, turned it into a quite useable vessel. It was surveyed last week.

It may have saved me a lot of money and time had I bought a complete usable old craft of the same cass and refurbished it.

But I would not have a boat that has a much more modern layout and is completely new apart from the old but very solid hull.
Also, never in the water so no osmosis.

It will not be as fast off the wind as modern fat ars.d AWB but will stand up to any weather better than I could.
I don't see anything wrong with buying an older racing type craft as long as you realise and are aware of the potential problemsm, limitations and advantages.

Iain

 

[Krusty]

Tired old racing cruisers CAN make a lot of sense if you are careful to make a good choice of a pedigree design and reasonable history.
Sent you a PM.

 

[ColinS]

Had a Carter 30 for 7 years and was quite sad to see her go. Reefed down she sailed well in 35 knots during one of those balmy summer days we have.
In 2007 I came across one in the Azores that had made a 20 something day passage from Antigua with father and son on board. They had no problems during a rather stormy crossing.
So go for it I say, very good value for money when you can pick up a 30+ foot boat for less than £20,000.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

I've never understood why the Carter's fetch such low prices for such a good boat..... both the 30 and 33 sail beautifully, are well thought out below, and are very safe and secure in a real hoolie..... yet neither would make over 20K.... I saw a 33 sell in 2007 (admittedly a tiny bit scruffy - but nothing serious) for £13k!!!!

 

[cumbrian]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never understood why the Carter's fetch such low prices for such a good boat.....

[/ QUOTE ]good to see carters extolled at the last hour - the original list holds up, with an additional suggestion of for pioneer 10 - a marque i'd never heard of

there seems to be a general approval from most folks for the idea that these boats last - providing you avoid major problems and allow for upgrading

and i just got the latest pbo - which of course makes half of my original post redundant!

as a (final?) point - one of the few negative points in the thread has been on UFO "roll" - are there any views as to how much of an issue this can be - from what i read here and elsewhere so far i don't regard it as a reason not to consider this boat.

cheers
keith

 

[paulrossall]

There is a tendency for older narrower boat to roll going downwind whilst a modern fat ar**ed boat won't do that as much. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Robin]

The UFO 34 'Black Arrow' was one of the boats that finished the 1979 Fastnet, RAF crew I think. I would happily sail one, just resist the temptation to fly the spinnaker in winds above F6! I doubt you would find a good one in your price range however. Many were home completed (some good some bad), most were a racing layout with pilot berths but a few were built as fast cruisers with a more cruisy layout, one cruising variant was called a Hazlewood 34.

 

[snowleopard]

Don't assume a racer is just a cruiser with a faster hull and bigger rig. Look carefully at the rig and ask yourself what it would be like to sail short-handed. If it has been a serious racer, expect hank-on or track-fed headsails. Slab reefing is pretty well standard. Has it got runners? Can you reach the sheets while helming? Does it take 2 or more crew to tack the boat? How much will it cost to re-rig so it is sailable by you and your regular crew?

Below decks there will probably be lots of berths to take a big crew but little privacy, even when using the head!

I once did a passage on an X99 which had no backstay so one runner had to always be set up or the mast would come down!

 

[lw395]

All I will say is Harken Roller Reefing makes a big difference to short handed sailing. And Snowleopard's remark about reaching the sheets from the helm is important, but many modern cruisers are worse for this, go to the boat show and look for mainsheets that can't be reached from the wheel...

 

[cumbrian]

thanks again for these recent posts which continue to add depth. robin - you seem to recall my budget from an earlier post! - needless to say it is creeping upwards - mainly due to views and questions posed by forumites, making me constantly revise and reconsider what i am looking for as my knowledge creeps upwards

[ QUOTE ]
I would happily sail one, just resist the temptation to fly the spinnaker in winds above F6! I doubt you would find a good one in your price range however.

[/ QUOTE ] probability of.... me+F6+spinnaker = zero. i'm not aiming for short handed sailing that goes pear shaped - take it for granted that i won't be looking for hank on headsails etc

as to what consitutes "good condition" - my aim is to get hold of a boat sound design and known performance that may be tired but "works" and has no _fundamental_ problems. in time, the boat might be made to fly /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif when my budget and experience allows. (i already suspect that pottering around probably won't be enough)

keith

 

[DJE]

do tired old racing style cruisers make sense?

They make very little sense most of the time but some of them still make reasonable crew! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[sighmoon]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Windfall]

Well actually if you get down to it...does owning any boat really make sense?

We have a tired old racing cruiser as per your list - an S&S She 31b. She's very tatty, was very cheap (although we're now at that blancing point where we've spent more on her than we paid for her originally)but, in our eyes, she's stunning and to my other half that's very important. She turns heads wherever we go and always, always gets people to talk to us.

She's also cramped and can be uncomfortable (we sail with 2 kids and a dog)but she's such a thrilling sailing boat that it's difficult to imagine what we could replace her with.

So no, they don't make sense at all - but do they have to? There's enough in life that's sensible.

 

[cumbrian]

windfall has said it all[ QUOTE ]
..tired old racing cruiser... very tatty, was very cheap...such a thrilling sailing boat that it's difficult to imagine what we could replace her with.

[/ QUOTE ]
now this is way off topic but if you're my age /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif... stop making sense

 

[Blueboatman]

Reading this thread with great interest, there is some real experience and owner advice offered.
And here's my 2 ha'porth..
In case you were thinking of buying outside of the UK, have you considered some of the S+S designs manufactured in the US ?
My last boat was a cheapo $3K Pearson 26, which I lengthened and strengthened and which became a very quick and able crusier but not something I would want to take offshore indefinitely. However the slightly larger Pearson 30s were delivered from new under sail from the factory to the Caribbean, Bermuda etc.
Their in house designer, Bill Shaw, cut his teeth at S+S and it really showed in his 1970s designs..The 30s sail beautifully,without any IOR oddities, are quick in light airs too and although not overbuilt, don't break and are very very cheap and reasonably spacious but rather cheaply fitted out downbelow in a bogstandard 2+2 berth downbelow arrangement.

I ended up with a very stiff, quick 28 footer and new comfortable woody interior with superb sails but whenever racing, indifferently sailed 30s would just romp past most other boats, regardless of seastate or wind..A good 'un will set you back 12-15000 US ( plus that bit for EEC entry at the end of your round the world trip if you wanted to keep it)..