Do I need a passport to go on a cruise?

[Caraway]

I wonder how many people now do not have passports?

Jonathan

Post #11

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The UK has always had this problem of ID cards, call it a passport, in HK we had ID card, required to be carried, as passports were required to be carried if you were a visitor. Don't like the rules - don't come.

But given the issues with illegal immigrants and drug importation I really do not see why many are averse to carrying a document that cannot be easily forged that proves who you are. In Oz, and most 'place foreign' are a long way away, we are still accosted by Customs and Border Protection when offshore (from aircraft, helicopter or vessel), by VHF as to who we are and a requirement to give our Rego number - they have it all on computer and can verify what we advise. We don't find it an affront to our privacy nor personal freedom.

What is wrong with a cruise ship demanding the same sort of identification. If nothing else they need to confirm you are the person who booked the cruise.

I wonder how many people now do not have passports?

Jonathan

The problem with ID cards in the UK is a) there's a strong cultural dislike of them and b) whenever the Government has tried to establish one, it has been overloaded with links to all kinds of sensitive information. As the data would necessarily be available to quite low-ranking officials, it would be a dead certainty that the ID database would leak, and expose people to ID theft etc. That's the issue that the last attempt to bring them in hit, which was pointed out very vociferously by many people involved in data management. Something like the HK ID card which did simply identify a person would probably be fine - but governments always want to have more features! The fact that they were going to impose a charge for it of about the same amount as a passport also moved people against it. Passports are fine - you don't HAVE to have one unless you're traveling overseas, and in any case, they don't link directly to other databases. For everyday purposes, a driving license is fine and widely accepted. Although undoubtedly someone will come back and say that they don't have either, such people are a rarity these days.

Finally, the law and order argument only works if crooks obey the law, and I guess most of us can spot the logical error in that! Introduce an ID card like the last proposal and there would simply be a market in fake ID cards linked to the ID of some innocent person. And, as I said, to be of any use, the ID card data would have to be exposed to people at a level where the temptation to get rich quick would certainly result in ID theft.

 

[awol]

They may need passports but their palates are in for a treat.
Cruise passengers at Greenock to get drinks surprise

 

[JumbleDuck]

They may need passports but their palates are in for a treat.
Cruise passengers at Greenock to get drinks surprise

Irn-Bru? Greenock's going upmarket - it would normally be a bottle of Buckie and a stabbing. No wonder JWD marina has those great big walls around it ...

 

[awol]

Irn-Bru? Greenock's going upmarket - it would normally be a bottle of Buckie and a stabbing. No wonder JWD marina has those great big walls around it ...

Buckie? In my day it was

 

[lustyd]

I really do not see why many are averse to carrying a document that cannot be easily forged that proves who you are.

All you achieve in having documents that are not easily forged is to increase the value of forgeries or stolen copies. Historically it's not been awesome for societies who have had to show their papers, or where governments have been able to keep lists of people's movements and attributes.
In the UK we have a fairly robust system of law which states you are innocent until proven guilty and do not have to answer to anyone until they have some evidence against you. This includes the Police, and so until they suspect you of a crime, and have sufficient evidence to back up that suspicion, they have no right whatsoever to ask who you are or what you're doing. They can ask, but we don't have to respond. In such a system ID cards serve no purpose because once you get to the point of having to prove who you are, you could be detained anyway.

 

[JNKScot]

Buckie? In my day it was View attachment 117065

Slogan - "Dinn'ae be Canny, ask fur Lanny"

Either that or LD

 

[Seven Spades]

You don't need a passport to come to Guernsey on a private boat.

If you divert to France you do and if you decide to fly or go from Guernsey to UK or vv you now have to have a passport, photo driving licence, military id card or equivalent.

It has only recently been required by ferry CI to UK and going back a decade or more you did not need one to fly but I think it tightened up following the incorrectly named 9/11 ie 11/9/2001.

For the original post on a cruise ship in these Covid times all the passengers may be from the UK but the crew probably come from every nation under the sun so how do you tell them apart, so its probably easier to say all need passports?

The answer is if they are coming from the UK then they will already have been through immigration conmtrol. You don't need a passport to go from Warwickshire to Hampshire that's the point of the CA.

 

[Seven Spades]

It is very easy to make an ID card that cannot be forged. All it needs is a QR code that links to the passport office. The passport photograph you used to get your passport woudl be displayed along with other revelant details. You won't be able to use anyone elses QR code because their photograph and biometric details won't match. Most of the companies trying to sell very expensive "secure" cards to the government have no fnancial incentive to sell a cheap card containing a QR code. The government gateway could easily handle this , we have seen how the government has built a fantastic gateway and it is clearly the same same software used for the NHS (Re-skinned) it is probably one huge database.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It is very easy to make an ID card that cannot be forged. All it needs is a QR code that links to the passport office.

Or to another website which masquerades as the passport office.

 

[lustyd]

People always think anti forgery is easy until they try, and then every single one of them fails. Until the passport office starts paying people enough that they're uninterested in earning more there will always be a weakness. You're also assuming it's impossible to look like someone elses 8 year old photo, which is a very flawed idea. You're also assuming that all counterfeit passports are created outside the normal system, they aren't. It's still easy enough to create or steal an identity if you want one.

 

[lustyd]

Or to another website which masquerades as the passport office.

Indeed. QR codes, by their nature, are insecure and open to abuse.

 

[Seven Spades]

No not at all. If you are a police officer you have an app on your that scans your ID card QR code. The police APP shows them your photo, DOB and any other data they need. You can't fake that. The QR code is not a web link, just like the QR code on a lottery ticket. It is a very simply 100% secure unbreakable system. It is a bit like telling the police officer your NI number or passport number. He doesn't need to see your photo on the card because he is going to get the data from the passport office. Unless you have an insider that can make a false identity in the passport office computer system (Unlikely) you won't be able to use anyone else's identity card.

 

[lustyd]

Still so many holes in the idea, and the more "infallable" it becomes the more likely it is we'd see abuses. People used to think DNA evidence was infallable too until we realised that not only is it not necessarily unique, but it's incredibly easy to get hold of and put places. Fingerprints before that went through the same process, and here you are suggesting a photo that's up to 10 years old is in some way useful to identify someone. And we're still not even addressing the fact that there's no reason I'd need to prove who I was in the UK.

 

[Greemble]

And we're still not even addressing the fact that there's no reason I'd need to prove who I was in the UK.

Back to the original question - Not 'in the UK'

It's proving who you are when arriving at a port, off a boat.
Bear in mind that a customs officer or Border Force official will not know where you came from, will most certainly not have been watching you leave (if you left from the same port) or instantly recognise who you are.

Seems many people take the view that "I know I haven't left UK waters on my trip, therefore everyone else must know this too"

Legally, you're probably right,
However, guess what? The Border Force hasn't been taking that much (or any, for that matter) notice of your travels.
Not until you return through the pier heads, anyway.

 

[Neeves]

Well - I'm glad there has been a robust discussion - which did not really get anywhere. Here in Oz we seem to get by with Driving Licences for most eventualities and you can get the same card, minus the ability to drive, to prove your age. We also have our health data on another website. Oddly people don't complain of the 'onerous' restrictions imposed and identity theft might be an issue but receives little or no media attention.

Has anyone asked Fred why he wants to see a passport, that would answer the OP.

Jonathan

 

[RichardS]

Well - I'm glad there has been a robust discussion - which did not really get anywhere.

I thought it was over by post #2.

Richard

 

[lustyd]

Back to the original question - Not 'in the UK'

Yes I responded to that a while ago and have no real problem with it.

I would think it depends how far off shore you went. In theory going from the scillies to Scotland you'd leave UK waters, even if you didn't stop in Ireland so it's not completely unreasonable to ask for a passport to get back in. Sailing locally there's not a chance I'd carry a passport or hand it over if asked - we are not required to carry ID in the UK.

That having been said, since Brexit happened and we lost a lot of freedom of movement I have started to question the whole passport and nationality thing. As a sailor and as someone who can work from a laptop anywhere I find it odd that I'm not allowed to just go anywhere and work from there. I find it even more strange that as a UK person I still have quite a bit more freedom than someone born elsewhere. Seems kind of arbitrary, especially when you consider how few people actually have a desire to leave their friends and family and move elsewhere!

 

[awol]

I thought it was over by post #2.

Richard

Nope. Your assumption that it referred to cruises starting external to the UK was presumptious. Passports are required for all cruises, well MSC and Olsen anyway, that start in and include only UK ports.

 

[Bilgediver]

It says "after return to the UK" so it's not talking about cruises which start in the UK and remain in the UK for the entire cruise.

Richard

Sh*t happens at sea and you could divert to maybe France. Be prepared as it is a foreign country just like Belgium Holland an all the others. Including Southern Ireland, sort of! The Passport is also a good way to ensure passengers are Identifiable. No emergency contacts on Bus passes or Driving Licences