michael_99
New member
Is there anyone out there working on a windvane who would like to swap ideas or pictures. I have some pictures of what i'm working on, what is the best way to share them. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
DIY windvane.
- Thread starter michael_99
- Start date
michael_99
New member
Ok, I have hosted my pics on TinyPic.com, so hopefully it works.
This is work in progress, and not the final set- up. Changes can be made when come to mind.
Please feel free to comment or add idea .
Pic 1 shows the vane setup. Made of ply wood. The idea is to use easy to get parts.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq7hv[/image]
Pic 2 shows the linkage from the vane.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq814[/image]
Pic 3 shows a close-up.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq840[/image]
Pic 4 shows the teflon bearing. SS bearings could be used at a cost.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq891[/image]
Pic 5 shows shows the pendulum shaft and the support swing arm.
The brass fitting is for 1 inch pipe, it has to be machined a little to allow the pipe to fit and turn smoothly.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq9kz[/image]
Pic 5 shows bearings options for swing arm. Teflon or brass.
This is work in progress, and not the final set- up. Changes can be made when come to mind.
Please feel free to comment or add idea .
Pic 1 shows the vane setup. Made of ply wood. The idea is to use easy to get parts.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq7hv[/image]
Pic 2 shows the linkage from the vane.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq814[/image]
Pic 3 shows a close-up.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq840[/image]
Pic 4 shows the teflon bearing. SS bearings could be used at a cost.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq891[/image]
Pic 5 shows shows the pendulum shaft and the support swing arm.
The brass fitting is for 1 inch pipe, it has to be machined a little to allow the pipe to fit and turn smoothly.
[image]http://www.tinypic.com/4tq9kz[/image]
Pic 5 shows bearings options for swing arm. Teflon or brass.
michael_99
New member
Something is going wrong here, pictures not showing, have to work out what I have done wrong.
BrendanS
Well-known member
The forum software is expecting to see a '.jpg' suffix to show that an image is there. Tinypic doesn't seem to use this standard image nomenclature for some reason, so the pics aren't displaying. You'll either have to host the pics somewhere else, or just let people cut and paste the urls manually
michael_99
New member
Thanks Brendan
I'll try photobucket and see what happens.
I'll try photobucket and see what happens.
michael_99
New member
Sorry, one pic missing
www.tinypic.com/4tq9nk
This picture shows the pendulum shaft plus ths swing shaft set-up. Either teflon or brass bearings should be fine.
www.tinypic.com/4tq9nk
This picture shows the pendulum shaft plus ths swing shaft set-up. Either teflon or brass bearings should be fine.
michael_99
New member
ok i'll try this way
www.tinypic.com/4tq7hv
www.tinypic.com/4tq814
www.tinypic.com/4tq840
www.tinypic.com/4tq891
www.tinypic.com/4tq9kz
www.tinypic.com/4tq9nk
Picture 5 shows the brass T connector 1 1/4 inch. The pipe fitting is 1 inch, and needs to be machined slighty to allow the 1 inch pipe to fit and turn smoothly.
www.tinypic.com/4tq7hv
www.tinypic.com/4tq814
www.tinypic.com/4tq840
www.tinypic.com/4tq891
www.tinypic.com/4tq9kz
www.tinypic.com/4tq9nk
Picture 5 shows the brass T connector 1 1/4 inch. The pipe fitting is 1 inch, and needs to be machined slighty to allow the 1 inch pipe to fit and turn smoothly.
michael_99
New member
Ok that works,if you have any comment or questions, please feel free too.
michael_99
New member
Sorry, another one missing.
www.tinypic.com/4trhw4
This picture shows the connecting rod from the vane, which will be attacted to the wheel, and lines then connected to the pendulum shaft to turn it.
www.tinypic.com/4trhw4
This picture shows the connecting rod from the vane, which will be attacted to the wheel, and lines then connected to the pendulum shaft to turn it.
PuffTheMagicDragon
Active member
Hi Michael!
Two things:
1. You seem to intend using pulleys and lines instead of bevel gears. While this is less expensive - no doubt - how do you propose to keep the lines tight and not sag? If you use a line with no stretch and tighten a lot, you might have problems with the wooden sheave.
2. It is not clear from the first photo but is the vane pivot shaft truly horizontal? It should be inclined between 15 - 20 degrees, the higher end being towards the wind.
Fair Winds!
Two things:
1. You seem to intend using pulleys and lines instead of bevel gears. While this is less expensive - no doubt - how do you propose to keep the lines tight and not sag? If you use a line with no stretch and tighten a lot, you might have problems with the wooden sheave.
2. It is not clear from the first photo but is the vane pivot shaft truly horizontal? It should be inclined between 15 - 20 degrees, the higher end being towards the wind.
Fair Winds!
michael_99
New member
Hi Wally. Bevel gears is not really for the DIY person, expensive and hard to get and work with, and not something you can fix anywhere.According to Bill Belchers book "Wind-vane self steering" which I have, the incline of the vane is only cosmetic, his own trails has shown no benefit at all. With the boat constantly moving all over the place, I don't see how the incline could have any effect at all, the wind applying pressure on the vane only. With everything ballanced, it should make no difference. If one wants to put a incline on it, fine, it just make it a little bit harder to make. That's all.
The tension on the lines will be adjustble.Lines have been used before with no problems. Personally choice, and that of your pocket size, if you know what I mean.
The tension on the lines will be adjustble.Lines have been used before with no problems. Personally choice, and that of your pocket size, if you know what I mean.
PuffTheMagicDragon
Active member
Well, I have never seen the Belcher book, nor do I know when it was published. What I do know is what I have observed: a vane that is on an inclined axis does feather more smoothly as it is being blown to one side. The projected area, that is the area of surface 'as seen by the wind' diminishes - or increases - at a faster rate when the pivoting is on an inlined axis. It is more sensitive.
You can easily try that out for yourself by making two quick models, one horizontal and one inclined. Nothing fancy. A piece of wire through a tube (e.g. old ball pen casing). Pieces of card stuck to the tube with tape. Paper clips counterweight to balance. Mount them side by side on a board and turn them this way and that in a slight breeze. Compare the reponses. Don't take my word for it!
I don't believe that anyone produces horizontal pivots any more. There used to be a company in england in the 60's that used an arrangement of pulleys and horizontal axis. Name was Qume or something similar. Their technology was superseded a long time ago.
Perhaps the Belcher book dates from those days?
Whatever. If your system works for you and you are happy with it, that is all there is to it!
Personally I do not take a book - no matter how popular - as a gospel. For many years I had a framed picture in my office that said "To discover new horizons you must first lose sight of the land". You have it in your signature. Why don't you test the Belcher assumption for yourself? Lose sight of the book?
Fair Winds!
You can easily try that out for yourself by making two quick models, one horizontal and one inclined. Nothing fancy. A piece of wire through a tube (e.g. old ball pen casing). Pieces of card stuck to the tube with tape. Paper clips counterweight to balance. Mount them side by side on a board and turn them this way and that in a slight breeze. Compare the reponses. Don't take my word for it!
I don't believe that anyone produces horizontal pivots any more. There used to be a company in england in the 60's that used an arrangement of pulleys and horizontal axis. Name was Qume or something similar. Their technology was superseded a long time ago.
Perhaps the Belcher book dates from those days?
Whatever. If your system works for you and you are happy with it, that is all there is to it!
Personally I do not take a book - no matter how popular - as a gospel. For many years I had a framed picture in my office that said "To discover new horizons you must first lose sight of the land". You have it in your signature. Why don't you test the Belcher assumption for yourself? Lose sight of the book?
Fair Winds!
michael_99
New member
Wally, maybe you could post a picture of your own homemade vane, so we can see how you did it.
Belchers book is only about homemade vanes, and yes it is a bit out of date. I have seen a number of vanes on the market with horizontal axes, CapeHorn is one of them. I suppose only time will tell.
This one is not to be compared to a Monitor, Monitor $6000 in AUSTRALIA, and so far, I have spend less then $100, and I only have the support frame to do. Still thinking of how to do that. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Belchers book is only about homemade vanes, and yes it is a bit out of date. I have seen a number of vanes on the market with horizontal axes, CapeHorn is one of them. I suppose only time will tell.
This one is not to be compared to a Monitor, Monitor $6000 in AUSTRALIA, and so far, I have spend less then $100, and I only have the support frame to do. Still thinking of how to do that. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
PuffTheMagicDragon
Active member
Quote:
CapeHorn is one of them.
No it isn't! Have a look at www.capehorn.com
I am sorry but I cannot post photos at this time. I shall try to explain as best I can.
It is a 'normal' pendulum type (e.g. monitor) and uses bevel gears at a ratio of 2:1. I believe that this system is better than the Cape Horn which basically uses a rod bent into a zig-zag shape. I don't like the 'oil-rig' type of arrangement that the monitor has. Without doubt it is the best one around, commercially, and I would expect it to be at their price!
My mounting is vaguely similar to the cape horn in that it consists of a stainless steel tube of around 100mm through which passes the linking rod. At the top of this tube sits a shorter length that fits freely and can be turned. There is a bracket in the shape of a U with the round part encircling the 'big' tube and the legs of the U extending outwards horizontally. The bracket that carries the vane is welded to them. U and bracket are plain 3mm flatbar. The short tube is split down - up really - 2/3 of its length and has a clamping arrangement. Bolt and nut affair. The vane bracket is a U with unequal legs and the top 25mm are angled backwards slightly. A tube is welded to them. Through this tube passes a length of rod, threaded at each end, that supports the vane itself and the pivot arm. The rod fits loosely in nylon bushes fitted to the welded tube; the upper one is shaped like an upside down tophat so that it provides a 'thrust bearing' surface for the vane structure. This also carries the counterweight.
Linking is through a stainless rod using homemade universals where you have the swivel. Needless to say the rod remains centred regardless of where the vane bracket tube is clamped.
Where mine differs from others is in that the lower part of the setup swings on the same shaft that carries a small bevel wheel that is free to rotate. This wheel was bored out to take a thin nylon bush and has a short length of flatbar attached to it - one end carries the lower coupling , the other carries a small weight to balance the link rod.
On the same shaft swings the support for the pendulum, whose shaft carries the larger bevel. The whole frame is free to swing from side to side, again using loose fit nylon bushes over the SAME axis. Power steering is from above the frame, unlike the monitor.
The horizontal axis that supports the pendulum frame is a 14mm stainless rod, threaded M12 at each end and held in place in the supporting structure by Nylok nuts.
The supporting structure is simply a capital A with a flat top, A horizontal square with two legs. The axis passes between the two short pieces, that is the one at the 'top' and that at the 'middle' of the A. The legs are bolted to the part of the deck that I have behind the cockpit. The stucture is built out of 50mm x 50mm x 5mm stainless angle. Fixing is by 4 M12 bolts with a glassed in backing plate.
Smaller angles hold the vertical tube correctly above the link arm of the small bevel.
Stainless bevels are expensive: I know. That is why I use plain mild steel ones. You are only using 1/4 of the teeth at most. The ones not in use are well covered with paint, thick grease. If the working part ever gets too worn it will be a simple matter to rotate the bevels and use a newer section. Most of the material came from scrap. Machining was done at home. Welding was done in a friend's workshop, simply because his welders can do a neater job than I can! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Nylon bushes - if loose - are acceptable. Stainless roller bearings would be better but seem to be unobtainable round here. I did find a source in Australia - spares for winches! I never got round to checking if they do mail order.
I think that's about it! If you need more information please feel free to contact me.
Fair winds!
CapeHorn is one of them.
No it isn't! Have a look at www.capehorn.com
I am sorry but I cannot post photos at this time. I shall try to explain as best I can.
It is a 'normal' pendulum type (e.g. monitor) and uses bevel gears at a ratio of 2:1. I believe that this system is better than the Cape Horn which basically uses a rod bent into a zig-zag shape. I don't like the 'oil-rig' type of arrangement that the monitor has. Without doubt it is the best one around, commercially, and I would expect it to be at their price!
My mounting is vaguely similar to the cape horn in that it consists of a stainless steel tube of around 100mm through which passes the linking rod. At the top of this tube sits a shorter length that fits freely and can be turned. There is a bracket in the shape of a U with the round part encircling the 'big' tube and the legs of the U extending outwards horizontally. The bracket that carries the vane is welded to them. U and bracket are plain 3mm flatbar. The short tube is split down - up really - 2/3 of its length and has a clamping arrangement. Bolt and nut affair. The vane bracket is a U with unequal legs and the top 25mm are angled backwards slightly. A tube is welded to them. Through this tube passes a length of rod, threaded at each end, that supports the vane itself and the pivot arm. The rod fits loosely in nylon bushes fitted to the welded tube; the upper one is shaped like an upside down tophat so that it provides a 'thrust bearing' surface for the vane structure. This also carries the counterweight.
Linking is through a stainless rod using homemade universals where you have the swivel. Needless to say the rod remains centred regardless of where the vane bracket tube is clamped.
Where mine differs from others is in that the lower part of the setup swings on the same shaft that carries a small bevel wheel that is free to rotate. This wheel was bored out to take a thin nylon bush and has a short length of flatbar attached to it - one end carries the lower coupling , the other carries a small weight to balance the link rod.
On the same shaft swings the support for the pendulum, whose shaft carries the larger bevel. The whole frame is free to swing from side to side, again using loose fit nylon bushes over the SAME axis. Power steering is from above the frame, unlike the monitor.
The horizontal axis that supports the pendulum frame is a 14mm stainless rod, threaded M12 at each end and held in place in the supporting structure by Nylok nuts.
The supporting structure is simply a capital A with a flat top, A horizontal square with two legs. The axis passes between the two short pieces, that is the one at the 'top' and that at the 'middle' of the A. The legs are bolted to the part of the deck that I have behind the cockpit. The stucture is built out of 50mm x 50mm x 5mm stainless angle. Fixing is by 4 M12 bolts with a glassed in backing plate.
Smaller angles hold the vertical tube correctly above the link arm of the small bevel.
Stainless bevels are expensive: I know. That is why I use plain mild steel ones. You are only using 1/4 of the teeth at most. The ones not in use are well covered with paint, thick grease. If the working part ever gets too worn it will be a simple matter to rotate the bevels and use a newer section. Most of the material came from scrap. Machining was done at home. Welding was done in a friend's workshop, simply because his welders can do a neater job than I can! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Nylon bushes - if loose - are acceptable. Stainless roller bearings would be better but seem to be unobtainable round here. I did find a source in Australia - spares for winches! I never got round to checking if they do mail order.
I think that's about it! If you need more information please feel free to contact me.
Fair winds!
michael_99
New member
Sorry, was tryng to post more pics, but something is stuffing up.
michael_99
New member
trying to post a few more.
michael_99
New member
try one more
michael_99
New member
one more
michael_99
New member
The brass fittings can be sub with SS, but I didn't know that at the time. Cost a little more, but not much.
Sorry for not having it all together, but I'm having some pc problems.
It gives you some idea of the basic parts I'm trying to use. Of the shelf so to speak.
Sorry for not having it all together, but I'm having some pc problems.
It gives you some idea of the basic parts I'm trying to use. Of the shelf so to speak.
NigeCh
New member
You've got posts here there and everywhere ... and piccies too. BUT although you've probably made the most beautiful windvane ever (from Bill Belcher's book) you failed twice: Letcher said that "to build without thinking from a book is what most do." Dykstra said "Think and then employ what seems best."
What you have done is to build something without thinking what you were about. Let me explain: Your ply wind vane is almost as heavy as your paddle. What's needed on any servo pendulum is a lightweight vane with just 2nd moment of inertia sufficient to match the vertical turning of the in water blade to work with feed back to maintain the correct attitude of the wheel for the wind and the windspeed.
Making a servo-pendulum that works under all conditions from Bill Belcher's book is not easy. He leaves an awful lot out. His book is a classic just as are the other two that define the trio of books that set out the beginnings in servo-pendulums.
Peter Foerthmann has a downloadable pdf on the windpilot site that compares ALL CURRENT windvanes. It's as unbiased as it can be especially when the author is the maker of the fairly good but not the best windvane ie the 'Windpilot'
Electronics have taken over: If you combine and Autopilot (10 mA) with an Audi clutch cable with a Raymarine fluxgate (2 mA) and any servo-pendulum [+ a bit of software] then you will have the ultimate 2006 dream steering machine.
What you've got to do is to take ALL of the current thinking on windvanes and come up with something better .... but Raymarine have already beaten you [and the late Bill Belcher] there .... Take the easy route and buy some R&R [Ray & R'marine] [It will last all of a fortnight before is gets all steamed up and fails ....]
What you have done is to build something without thinking what you were about. Let me explain: Your ply wind vane is almost as heavy as your paddle. What's needed on any servo pendulum is a lightweight vane with just 2nd moment of inertia sufficient to match the vertical turning of the in water blade to work with feed back to maintain the correct attitude of the wheel for the wind and the windspeed.
Making a servo-pendulum that works under all conditions from Bill Belcher's book is not easy. He leaves an awful lot out. His book is a classic just as are the other two that define the trio of books that set out the beginnings in servo-pendulums.
Peter Foerthmann has a downloadable pdf on the windpilot site that compares ALL CURRENT windvanes. It's as unbiased as it can be especially when the author is the maker of the fairly good but not the best windvane ie the 'Windpilot'
Electronics have taken over: If you combine and Autopilot (10 mA) with an Audi clutch cable with a Raymarine fluxgate (2 mA) and any servo-pendulum [+ a bit of software] then you will have the ultimate 2006 dream steering machine.
What you've got to do is to take ALL of the current thinking on windvanes and come up with something better .... but Raymarine have already beaten you [and the late Bill Belcher] there .... Take the easy route and buy some R&R [Ray & R'marine] [It will last all of a fortnight before is gets all steamed up and fails ....]
