DIY CopperCoating application notes.

[lw395]

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[*]Epoxy primer paints come in two varieties, solvent and water based. Don't buy the solvent variety unless you can allow for 7 days so that the base layer can vent off its solvent otherwise you risk the coppercoat trapping vapour and bubbling. In British terms this means don't buy GelShield 200.....
[/LIST]

Not sure about this.
There is solvent based epoxy paint, water based epoxy and solvent free epoxy.
Lots of people seem to have used Gelshield without solvent entrapment issues?
I don't think I'd want water trapped any more than any other solvent, less so in fact in the light of osmosis.

Perhaps people could shelve the bickering and tell us what epoxies work well?
Some good points which are what this forum should be about.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Hmm I will keep an open mind on this subject until I observe the grand prix racing machines of the Solent applying golfball textured laminate to their hulls

I THINK (I am no racing person!) that textured finishes have been used on extreme racing machines. However, that really is a vague recollection. It is certain that textures CAN enhance the speed, though whether the coppercoat "orange peel" effect does so is unknown. I would remark that the "orange peel" effect is usually a visual effect only, with little if any actual texture. I don't know in my case - it didn't happen.

I know from your many posts here over the years that you are a highly practical chap

Can you say that VERY loud in the ears of people like my brother and my wife? I am flattered!

 

[longjohnsilver]

Go to hell!

Seriously though folks, I think its important to remember that jonjo5 started this thread with the intention of passing on a few tips re Coppercoat application. Really no need to attempt to shoot him down in flames for what was intended as a help to others. Perhaps a bit of constructive criticism might have led to a more useful discussion.

Having been very closely involved with CC application 2 years ago, as well as waiting more than a week after applying Gelshield, I thought JJ5 made some valid and helpful observations. Can't really understand the resultant bickering.

 

[jonjo]

Not sure about this.
There is solvent based epoxy paint, water based epoxy and solvent free epoxy.

You could be right, the experience highlighted how little I know about paint.

Lots of people seem to have used Gelshield without solvent entrapment issues?

There is a solvent free Gelshield variant, in the end I used Hempels solvent free epoxy because that is all I could find on the shelves at short notice.

In a telephone conversation Mr Coppercoat explained that the water or solvent slows down the 2-part epoxy molecular mating because it keeps them apart for a time. There would appear to be an ideal rate of evaporation for these epoxy paints to aid application and provide enough time for subsequent coats to epoxy-latch onto the undercoat before the undercoat's molecular mating game ends. This is why a DIY coppercoater cannot give up part way and do coats 3 to 5 a day or two later.

 

[Yngmar]

Epoxy primer paints come in two varieties, solvent and water based. Don't buy the solvent variety unless you can allow for 7 days so that the base layer can vent off its solvent otherwise you risk the coppercoat trapping vapour and bubbling. In British terms this means don't buy GelShield 200.

I used the International Interprotect (2 part primer), as recommended by AMC, then keyed it with 120-180 grit also as recommended (iirc). Wouldn't risk going against the recommendation just to save a few quid there.

Unless you have a large application team I doubt a DIYer can roll on a standard 1 liter unit of coppercoat before the pot begins to cure...

Only just! ;-) I would however not recommend it and mixing half pots at a time is the wiser choice - depends on temperature as well of course.

I reckon a DIY team should be 3 strong, one mixing, dispensing and re-stirring, the other two rolling on.

That would be ideal. However, if you cannot get volunteers, it is possible to do a 40 foot hull (incl. keel, excl. rudder) in a long day on your own. Bring sandwiches and thermos can, there won't be much time for rest.

My experiences last year: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?438767-Top-and-bottom-cleaning&p=5460393#post5460393

It's now been about 10 months and so far the stuff is working well as far as I can tell with waterproof camera taped to boathook - couldn't see my keel in the murk, which would be the interesting bit, as it goes down in the mud at low tide. I occasionally scrub the waterline from the pontoon - should've coated a bit higher!

Edit: Don't forgot to abrade it before launching! Either the recommended scotchbrite pad, or a quick run with the RO sander all over the hull. I reckon a lot of "me coppercoat dun werk" type of complaints are caused by forgetting this important step.

 

[Halo]

I am preparing to Coppercoat my boat and would like to thank the OP (Jonjo5) for taking the time and trouble to post details of his experience in this serious job. It would be really good if more people took this approach after completing complex jobs rather than waiting to crtitically pounce on anything that does not match their experience and views.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I'll add my experiences albeit mine are of recoating the rudder and keel rather than doing the hull which was professionally coated.

First thing you need of doing the work outside is a spell of warm dry weather. 5 days or so because the system doesnt take kindly to being rained upon or dewed upon until cured and even then gains from an extra day or two before launch. And it doesnt cure very well in March as I found out the first time round.

Mixing is easy but if you are coating a full hull you would need one person to apply and one to mix and do other tasks. For smaller touch up areas I found it easy to use those plastic hospital measuring cups they give you your pills in, since you can measure out by volume as well as weight. Rollers are the short piled epoxy ones which you can strip off the handle and lob straight into a bucket of water when you go onto the next mix. Your oppo can rinse them out , dry them off and get them ready for re-use.

Application is easy except that coppercoat is no better at sticking to lead than any other paint. If you have a bolted on lead keel then it needs abrading to create a rough surface, then immediately coating in a solvent free epoxy with several coats, then sanding then coppercoat. Even then, in my experience it wont survive a grounding

The key to the whole exercise is warm dry weather and a clean prepared surface. The rest is easy.

P.S. Someone is bound to wonder. The keel needed recoating after the yard pressure washed the original coat off thanks to poor surface prep and a minor grounding - once water gets in, it travels between the lead and the coating which then lifts. The rudder was the same yard not cleaning off all the old anti foul before coating - odd since they did an excellent job on the hull.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread .

we just about to do a second yacht in a few months , the first and only one we have done ( 11.6 mts ) was in 2013 .
Two of us , my partner mixed and I applied , in less then a day we copper coated the whole yacht other then the keel , rudder and pad spots , five coats in all , no problem with drying out before the next coat , if any thing , it was just tacky and ready for the next coat , we even stopped for lunch .
Mixing was all done by hand , again no problem , but you have to keep mixing so the copper don't go to the bottom .
Maybe we might film the next boat .
It really ain't that hard to copper coat , the hardest was removing the old antifouling .

 

[weustace]

Although I appreciate it is highly dependent on the weather, is it feasible to apply Coppercoat during a dry winter's day—say 10^oC? I have read somewhere that epoxy resin tends not to cure at all below a certain value—and obviously will cure more slowly. I notice their timings are mostly based around 20^oC, although the application guide gives the pot life as 40 mins at 10^oC. They advise not to attempt application below 8^oC.

I am considering Coppercoating this winter, and am wondering if I dare leave it until December, which is the first point at which I'm likely to have time for it. Should one perhaps consider constructing a tarpaulin tent which could be heated? I'd be concerned about solvent fumes, but is this much of an issue?

 

[Daydream believer]

Well for my two pennyworth i have a squib and a 31 ft cruiser. The squib sits on a mooring next othr squibs & has Copper tec. It performs marginally better than the professionally coated Copper coated ones. We still have to get them out to wash down but as a comparison 4 weeks for coppercoat equals 5 weeks for copper tec. However 4-5 weeks for either is too long as neither is much good and not much better than ordinary antifoul paints
Re my cruiser i launched in april and ha weed 8 inches long by mid august meaning a mid season jetwash which i have to do every year.still less labour than applying paint though so i reckon the lesser of 2 evils
As for instructions- i did the first lot of copper coat ( we will not go into why it had to be re done or amd's attitude at the LBS but later improved) following the dvd. This did not mention abrading prior to launch so when i rang amd they said did you abrade. I said no. They said your fault it is in the WRITTEN instructions. Well it was but they did not tell me that did they so so much for their comments above
However, if i had another boat i would have copper tec knowing it does not work properly but best of the 2 and budget for mid season scrub. They also have a better attitude to customers but that may have just been how i found coppercoat mob on the day

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Although I appreciate it is highly dependent on the weather, is it feasible to apply Coppercoat during a dry winter's day—say 10^oC? I have read somewhere that epoxy resin tends not to cure at all below a certain value—and obviously will cure more slowly. I notice their timings are mostly based around 20^oC, although the application guide gives the pot life as 40 mins at 10^oC. They advise not to attempt application below 8^oC.

I am considering Coppercoating this winter, and am wondering if I dare leave it until December, which is the first point at which I'm likely to have time for it. Should one perhaps consider constructing a tarpaulin tent which could be heated? I'd be concerned about solvent fumes, but is this much of an issue?

Its a struggle in the UK. My repairs have been done in March and also in November in the south of england because of the dates of the club launch and recovery. The problem wasnt the coppercoat but moisture / dew. Couldnt start until the boat hull had dried off and couldnt leave it unsheeted at the end of the day. Even sheeted damp gets underneath. If it gets wet before it dries and cures you have a problem. So yes I guess it must be possible but its a bit fraught and far better to cough up for a summer lift and launch.

No solvent fumes. The solvent is water which is why you have to keep it dry.

 

[PeterBoater]

I've just had my boat professionally Coppercoated; is it possible to get from the boatyard etc a pot of touch-up CC, or the materials to make one up, in the event of minor underwater scrapes?

 

[pcatterall]

Thanks JonJo for the benefit of your experience. Some of the comments on your task were helpful though not all courteous.

 

[AllanG]

I've just had my boat professionally Coppercoated; is it possible to get from the boatyard etc a pot of touch-up CC, or the materials to make one up, in the event of minor underwater scrapes?

You can buy a small tin for touch-up repairs directly from Coppercoat.

 

[ean_p]

As a slight aside to this thread....what is the outcome of applying CopperCoat to the steel of the keel or indeed a steel boat itself?

 

[Daydream believer]

As a slight aside to this thread....what is the outcome of applying CopperCoat to the steel of the keel or indeed a steel boat itself?

Oddly enough the metal keel of my boat is the only bit that gets no weed ( down to the point where it goes into the mud & that has ordinary errodable antifoul over it) even though it was done at the same time as the rest of the boat