Displacement vessel in trouble
- Thread starter mjf
- Start date
Gludy
Active member
I really am getting a bit fed up with this obvious displacment behaviour ... anything to stay clear of the real issues.
The passenger planing vessels like some ferries cannot leave port in any sort of heavy weather .... I wonder why?
The passenger planing vessels like some ferries cannot leave port in any sort of heavy weather .... I wonder why?
mjf
Active member
This one also has stabs fitted.......but I would guess no PG Tips currently being served.
Wiggo
New member
Purely commercial grounds, Paul. They can't serve bacon butties or tea, and as we all know, they make their money on the catering, not the tickets.
Its_Only_Money
New member
"The passenger planing vessels like some ferries cannot leave port in any sort of heavy weather .... I wonder why?"
Well who cares? There is enough commercial attraction in their speed for the vast majority of the time when they can run.
Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats to see a real benefit of their speed vs other operational limitations. (ie range, endurance, assistance required at the casualty as well as weather).
You commented some 5 threads and however many posts ago that (words to the effect) "you wanted to see where seakeeping was in everyone's list of priorities".....well its obviously different to different people isn't it????
You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant.
It might be time for you to sit back and reassess what this forum is good at - giving you access to a wider range of individual experiences than you would otherwise get, it isn't (and never will be IMHO) good at providing absolute Yes or No answers to Which is Best type questions - because such answers don't exist.
All IMHO of course......
Well who cares? There is enough commercial attraction in their speed for the vast majority of the time when they can run.
Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats to see a real benefit of their speed vs other operational limitations. (ie range, endurance, assistance required at the casualty as well as weather).
You commented some 5 threads and however many posts ago that (words to the effect) "you wanted to see where seakeeping was in everyone's list of priorities".....well its obviously different to different people isn't it????
You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant.
It might be time for you to sit back and reassess what this forum is good at - giving you access to a wider range of individual experiences than you would otherwise get, it isn't (and never will be IMHO) good at providing absolute Yes or No answers to Which is Best type questions - because such answers don't exist.
All IMHO of course......
D3B
New member
Do you think they can do French toast
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
tcm
...
what an utter windup merchant that mjf is!...
Gludy
Active member
"Well who cares? There is enough commercial attraction in their speed for the vast majority of the time when they can run."
The point is they cannot leave whilst diplsacment ferries can.
"Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats to see a real benefit of their speed vs other operational limitations. (ie range, endurance, assistance required at the casualty as well as weather)."
You are totally missing the point - the best sea keeping is in the sd hull hence the main lifeboat is not planing. The ribs are an exonomic and fast inshore rescue craft that because they plane are fast at getting to the caulaty but they offer nothing like the sea keeping virutes of the main lifeboat.
I have often stated that their is no right and wrong anwser, if you want high speed go for a planing hull and accept the lower sea keeping qualities - no argument. I have never stated differently.
"You commented some 5 threads and however many posts ago that (words to the effect) "you wanted to see where seakeeping was in everyone's list of priorities".....well its obviously different to different people isn't it????"
That was a question - its up to each person to decide on the answer ... you are not maing any sensible point.
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
total nonesense - as regards sea keeping the entire maritime industry makes a generalisation and it is that for sea keeping the nearer you get towards planing the poorer the sea keeping - denying this is p***** in the wind.
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
you appear to mix up your own chosen priorities with which I do not take issue with the facts and science about the hulls - these are facts and you should base your opinion on the facts.
"It might be time for you to sit back and reassess what this forum is good at - giving you access to a wider range of individual experiences than you would otherwise get, it isn't (and never will be IMHO) good at providing absolute Yes or No answers to Which is Best type questions - because such answers don't exist."
You are again mixing up the science of the matter with how you choose to go. Utter nonesense.
The point is they cannot leave whilst diplsacment ferries can.
"Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats to see a real benefit of their speed vs other operational limitations. (ie range, endurance, assistance required at the casualty as well as weather)."
You are totally missing the point - the best sea keeping is in the sd hull hence the main lifeboat is not planing. The ribs are an exonomic and fast inshore rescue craft that because they plane are fast at getting to the caulaty but they offer nothing like the sea keeping virutes of the main lifeboat.
I have often stated that their is no right and wrong anwser, if you want high speed go for a planing hull and accept the lower sea keeping qualities - no argument. I have never stated differently.
"You commented some 5 threads and however many posts ago that (words to the effect) "you wanted to see where seakeeping was in everyone's list of priorities".....well its obviously different to different people isn't it????"
That was a question - its up to each person to decide on the answer ... you are not maing any sensible point.
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
total nonesense - as regards sea keeping the entire maritime industry makes a generalisation and it is that for sea keeping the nearer you get towards planing the poorer the sea keeping - denying this is p***** in the wind.
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
you appear to mix up your own chosen priorities with which I do not take issue with the facts and science about the hulls - these are facts and you should base your opinion on the facts.
"It might be time for you to sit back and reassess what this forum is good at - giving you access to a wider range of individual experiences than you would otherwise get, it isn't (and never will be IMHO) good at providing absolute Yes or No answers to Which is Best type questions - because such answers don't exist."
You are again mixing up the science of the matter with how you choose to go. Utter nonesense.
boatone
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
A high wave smashing through the windows of the bridge and damaging electronics is thought to have caused the power cut.
[/ QUOTE ]
This does sound a little far fetched dontcha think?
Oh...and do stop getting at Gludy.....although I must say I wish he would get off the pot and just tell us what he's up to!
I've got a displacement boat but I don't remember having to post long and hard to justify buying it to myself. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A high wave smashing through the windows of the bridge and damaging electronics is thought to have caused the power cut.
[/ QUOTE ]
This does sound a little far fetched dontcha think?
Oh...and do stop getting at Gludy.....although I must say I wish he would get off the pot and just tell us what he's up to!
I've got a displacement boat but I don't remember having to post long and hard to justify buying it to myself. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
tcm
...
erm this is a bit of rubbish innit? The biggest irish sea ferry is a planing boat, not a fishing trudge thing, and the fastest sailing boats use planing technology instead of displacement, and with no trace of teak-faced ply.
imnportant factor i think is that Mobo-wise, no displacement boats would ever attempt to use scantily clad wimmin to sell the boat, and i note with initerest that the girly journo who went across the atlantic in a disp boat threw up for ages and despite being befriended never even came close to topless sunbathing, ever, or even ordinary sunabthing very much. This is surely a key factor for mobos, and even Wiggo in the solent has several wimmin on his boat plus other spare wimmin who *might* be related to him but are actually are loads better looking, even in Yarmouth - because of course it is a planing boat, therefore hugely sexy regardless of sealine badge or any other badge.
By contrast, on a displacement (or semidisplacement, same thing really - they're never "semi-planing" eh?) it is Trudge City and time for beard growing, or cooking boring roast dinners rather than the slightly dangerous ooer out-of control excitement of possible group sex on the sunpad. Er, sorry this post is now totally out of control...
I will take this opportunity to congratulate Gludy on his new boat.
imnportant factor i think is that Mobo-wise, no displacement boats would ever attempt to use scantily clad wimmin to sell the boat, and i note with initerest that the girly journo who went across the atlantic in a disp boat threw up for ages and despite being befriended never even came close to topless sunbathing, ever, or even ordinary sunabthing very much. This is surely a key factor for mobos, and even Wiggo in the solent has several wimmin on his boat plus other spare wimmin who *might* be related to him but are actually are loads better looking, even in Yarmouth - because of course it is a planing boat, therefore hugely sexy regardless of sealine badge or any other badge.
By contrast, on a displacement (or semidisplacement, same thing really - they're never "semi-planing" eh?) it is Trudge City and time for beard growing, or cooking boring roast dinners rather than the slightly dangerous ooer out-of control excitement of possible group sex on the sunpad. Er, sorry this post is now totally out of control...
I will take this opportunity to congratulate Gludy on his new boat.
Its_Only_Money
New member
[ QUOTE ]
"Well who cares? There is enough commercial attraction in their speed for the vast majority of the time when they can run."
The point is they cannot leave whilst diplsacment ferries can.
But they don't need to , the ability to go to Sea in all weathers isn't required so why complain that they can't do it?????
"Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats to see a real benefit of their speed vs other operational limitations. (ie range, endurance, assistance required at the casualty as well as weather)."
You are totally missing the point - the best sea keeping is in the sd hull hence the main lifeboat is not planing. The ribs are an exonomic and fast inshore rescue craft that because they plane are fast at getting to the caulaty but they offer nothing like the sea keeping virutes of the main lifeboat.
But they don't need to - see? Another case of a different set of requirements leading to a quite different compromise.
I have often stated that their is no right and wrong anwser, if you want high speed go for a planing hull and accept the lower sea keeping qualities - no argument. I have never stated differently.
"You commented some 5 threads and however many posts ago that (words to the effect) "you wanted to see where seakeeping was in everyone's list of priorities".....well its obviously different to different people isn't it????"
That was a question - its up to each person to decide on the answer ... you are not maing any sensible point.
My point is you are flogging a dead horse, everyone isn't going to accept your definition of acceptable seakeeping (walking around making tea etc), when it isn't their definition, many people it seems can make butties and tea in seas and boats in which you wouldn't, hance making simplistic statements not very meaningful.
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
total nonesense - as regards sea keeping the entire maritime industry makes a generalisation and it is that for sea keeping the nearer you get towards planing the poorer the sea keeping - denying this is p***** in the wind.
Yes but it is a pointless "definition", I need a boat that provides acceptable seakeeping to me, taking into account the weather I go out in and the use to which I put the boat, these choices and factors will be different for everyone no?
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
you appear to mix up your own chosen priorities with which I do not take issue with the facts and science about the hulls - these are facts and you should base your opinion on the facts.
Sorry but where have I mixed up my own priorities??????
"It might be time for you to sit back and reassess what this forum is good at - giving you access to a wider range of individual experiences than you would otherwise get, it isn't (and never will be IMHO) good at providing absolute Yes or No answers to Which is Best type questions - because such answers don't exist."
You are again mixing up the science of the matter with how you choose to go. Utter nonesense.
[/ QUOTE ]
My points under your points under my points.....
Oh dear I seem to disagree and are therefore talking nonsense???????? That IS convenient for you.
"Well who cares? There is enough commercial attraction in their speed for the vast majority of the time when they can run."
The point is they cannot leave whilst diplsacment ferries can.
But they don't need to , the ability to go to Sea in all weathers isn't required so why complain that they can't do it?????
"Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats to see a real benefit of their speed vs other operational limitations. (ie range, endurance, assistance required at the casualty as well as weather)."
You are totally missing the point - the best sea keeping is in the sd hull hence the main lifeboat is not planing. The ribs are an exonomic and fast inshore rescue craft that because they plane are fast at getting to the caulaty but they offer nothing like the sea keeping virutes of the main lifeboat.
But they don't need to - see? Another case of a different set of requirements leading to a quite different compromise.
I have often stated that their is no right and wrong anwser, if you want high speed go for a planing hull and accept the lower sea keeping qualities - no argument. I have never stated differently.
"You commented some 5 threads and however many posts ago that (words to the effect) "you wanted to see where seakeeping was in everyone's list of priorities".....well its obviously different to different people isn't it????"
That was a question - its up to each person to decide on the answer ... you are not maing any sensible point.
My point is you are flogging a dead horse, everyone isn't going to accept your definition of acceptable seakeeping (walking around making tea etc), when it isn't their definition, many people it seems can make butties and tea in seas and boats in which you wouldn't, hance making simplistic statements not very meaningful.
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
total nonesense - as regards sea keeping the entire maritime industry makes a generalisation and it is that for sea keeping the nearer you get towards planing the poorer the sea keeping - denying this is p***** in the wind.
Yes but it is a pointless "definition", I need a boat that provides acceptable seakeeping to me, taking into account the weather I go out in and the use to which I put the boat, these choices and factors will be different for everyone no?
"You should know by now that there are too many variables at play to make sweeping statements such as "SD hulls are better above a Fx", even your bacon buttie/walking around test, while it might reflect your typical crew's requirements it certainly doesn't represent mine so to compare is immediately irrelevant."
you appear to mix up your own chosen priorities with which I do not take issue with the facts and science about the hulls - these are facts and you should base your opinion on the facts.
Sorry but where have I mixed up my own priorities??????
"It might be time for you to sit back and reassess what this forum is good at - giving you access to a wider range of individual experiences than you would otherwise get, it isn't (and never will be IMHO) good at providing absolute Yes or No answers to Which is Best type questions - because such answers don't exist."
You are again mixing up the science of the matter with how you choose to go. Utter nonesense.
[/ QUOTE ]
My points under your points under my points.....
Oh dear I seem to disagree and are therefore talking nonsense???????? That IS convenient for you.
Wiggo
New member
1. Didn't exactly that happen in 'A Perfect Storm' aka 'Tiger Bay in a SW F4'
2. I think Mrs Gludy doesn't know about it yet, and he's just using us lot to practice his 'reasoned arguments' on
2. I think Mrs Gludy doesn't know about it yet, and he's just using us lot to practice his 'reasoned arguments' on
Talbot
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a world of diference between a planning rib, and the atlantic 21 design for RNLI. that design is based much more on a deep V and is an excellent poor weather boat. Most other ribs are a pale imitation in comparison.
Just as the RNLI sees enough benefit in the planing RIB lifeboats
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a world of diference between a planning rib, and the atlantic 21 design for RNLI. that design is based much more on a deep V and is an excellent poor weather boat. Most other ribs are a pale imitation in comparison.
Its_Only_Money
New member
Yes Talbot I know - but I was also pointing out that the Atlantics are still Lifeboats, Gludy was alluding to there being Lifeboats and RIBs (within the RNLI), and the Atlantic IS still a planing RIB.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Gludy
Active member
Right throughout your post you have confused looking at the facts of a matter to choosing the how to use them.
The whole point of pointing out that planing ferries stay in port whilst d ferries go to sea is to demonstrate that the d ferries are more seaworthy ... I totally agree that the planing ferries are doing the job they were designed to, noone is saying different.
The same point applies right through your post.
The whole point of pointing out that planing ferries stay in port whilst d ferries go to sea is to demonstrate that the d ferries are more seaworthy ... I totally agree that the planing ferries are doing the job they were designed to, noone is saying different.
The same point applies right through your post.
steverow
New member
Think I would take my chances on the stricken ship.
Sounds a lot more appetising than being rescued by an LPG tanker in a storm.
If there's any vessel you dont want to get on to, it's one of them.
Steve.
Sounds a lot more appetising than being rescued by an LPG tanker in a storm.
If there's any vessel you dont want to get on to, it's one of them.
Steve.
Bandit
Well-known member
Confusion about fast ferries.
Fast ferries are constrained under a totaly different set of rules than traditional ferries. This is largely based on the strength of the hull in a slamming condition, and is largely historical.
When the cats are on delivery runs from Aus to UK they operate in all weathers at up to 40 knots and reduce speed to suit very bad weather.
The cats can take very bad weather quite safely at reduced speed.
Slow ferries such as the old Devoniun a small boat of about 40m had no weather limitation ?? but fast of cats 86m do?? this is a historical thing rather than a passenger safety reason or a passenger comfort reason.
Part of the reason is that the cats are from a new type of boat and classed under the rules that were developed for the small hydrofoils and small IOW hovercraft and they are constrained because the rules allow it rather than commonsense dictates it.
Remember any boat if it gets enough power and goses fast enough and demonstrates dynamic lift is a planing boat and in fact the fast cats with thier beam to length ratios fall below that so they are not although they demonstrate lift . Confused ?
Fast ferries are constrained under a totaly different set of rules than traditional ferries. This is largely based on the strength of the hull in a slamming condition, and is largely historical.
When the cats are on delivery runs from Aus to UK they operate in all weathers at up to 40 knots and reduce speed to suit very bad weather.
The cats can take very bad weather quite safely at reduced speed.
Slow ferries such as the old Devoniun a small boat of about 40m had no weather limitation ?? but fast of cats 86m do?? this is a historical thing rather than a passenger safety reason or a passenger comfort reason.
Part of the reason is that the cats are from a new type of boat and classed under the rules that were developed for the small hydrofoils and small IOW hovercraft and they are constrained because the rules allow it rather than commonsense dictates it.
Remember any boat if it gets enough power and goses fast enough and demonstrates dynamic lift is a planing boat and in fact the fast cats with thier beam to length ratios fall below that so they are not although they demonstrate lift . Confused ?