Dinghy for a bit of family fun

[emsworthy]

Laser 2000 is in my opinion the one to go for. I've sailed one on my own as well as with another 14st bloater and had a blast (well it was 25kts!). I also know of a good friend who is now racing quite competitively with his 12 year old son in most conditions.

Certainly stable enough whilst you're mastering the boat and the gennaker is not too massive that your young crew won't cope with the loads but get a blow on and it'll take a week to wipe the smiles from your faces.

 

[arfa]

Cheers folks, lots of good pointers.
The shortlist is likely to be the laser 2000 and the osprey with the 2000 marginally ahead as trapezing and full spinnaker might be a bit much at this stage.

 

[fireball]

Just so you know - there is a trapeze option for the 2k ... not that I suggest you try it - but the kids could ...

Not for use in racing though ...

 

[arfa]

I get the impression the trapeze is an add on for the 2k and a necessity for the osprey

 

[fireball]

Nothing impresionwise about it - that's fact!

 

[emsworthy]

I get the impression the trapeze is an add on for the 2k and a necessity for the osprey

Stick 15st on the wire in a 2000 in anything less than a F7 and you'd have it over on top of you in seconds I reckon

 

[arfa]

Me on a wire conjures up images of a lost footing and swinging towards the mast like a human wrecking ball - i'll leave that to others !

 

[fireball]

you'd be fine in an Osprey ...

2k and I reckon you'd be folding the mast ... (nothing personal - just they're not very big section masts!)
Actually - if you do go for a 2k and fit a trapeze - make sure you also fit "lowers" - these are lower shrouds that go from the chainplates to the gooseneck - helps support the mast ....

 

[Twister_Ken]

Scorpion?

Actually no idea whether they'd suit your porpoise, but I just love the look of them.

 

[jwilson]

The osprey looks very interesting and I will do more research - I like the way the class page says that the odd 7 kilos or so does not make too much difference!

Once was third crew on an Osprey on a club dinghy cruise - a bit windy so one extra in most boats. Got very windy indeed about 5 miles out to windward, several capsizes (not us) and we turned round and planed back to get the rescue boat - very impressive speed with one trapezing and two sitting out hard. In those days club dinghies often cruised without an accompanying safety boat.

I've sailed Laser 2000s a lot since then, and don't actually like them. They are very cramped, and love to turtle on every capsize. When teaching sailing they were one of our training boats, and whilst they survived the usage quite well (better than 420 for build strength), I still never liked them.

 

[dunedin]

Given you are most of the weight and assuming you will be helming, then I think you should stick to hiking boats only. You then need to decide if you can handle a spinnaker. If not something like an Albacore or National 12(lighter, more tippy) would work well. If you are up to a spinnaker then any of the hiking assymmetrics would suit. RS200 is spot on for your combined weight. Laser 2000 would be good to and a bit more stable.

+1. Generally on a trapeze boat you want a big crew and small helm. And the Osprey, if I recall correctly,has a very big genoa and large symmetric spinnaker, so needs quite a bit of crew weight and muscle. So unless daughter going to helm, potentially a good option, unlikely to work.
Jib and asymmetric sheet loads on Laser 2000 much more manageable.

 

[Seajet]

A girlfriend, I'd guess around 8 stone, used to crew my Osprey; on the other hand it happilly took 4 people of around 10 stone average for a picnic.

The 'very large genoa' is news to me ! A furler for use with the kite was pretty standard in my day though, quite useful when 'cruising not racing' - see photo supplied earlier on this thread.

The Osprey isn't perfect, just a lot closer than anything else I've tried.

 

[dunedin]

A girlfriend, I'd guess around 8 stone, used to crew my Osprey; on the other hand it happilly took 4 people of around 10 stone average for a picnic.

The 'very large genoa' is news to me ! A furler for use with the kite was pretty standard in my day though, quite useful when 'cruising not racing' - see photo supplied earlier on this thread.

The Osprey isn't perfect, just a lot closer than anything else I've tried.

To quote go.sail.co.uk re the Osprey - "upwind performance is catered for by a large overlapping genoa, whereas off-wind speed is generated by the large spinnaker". It is one of the few dinghies - alongside FD and GP14- going with a genoa upwind.
Stats per some sites - Osprey genny 4.65 sq m laser 2000 3.04 sq m
Osprey spinnaker 17.2 sq m Laser 2000 10.02 sq m
(nb different sites so can't guarantee measurement basis identical but sounds right)

Beautiful boats the Osprey, but the ones I have seen raced effectively tended to have 2 large males as crew. More light crews in other boats

 

[Seajet]

To quote go.sail.co.uk re the Osprey - "upwind performance is catered for by a large overlapping genoa, whereas off-wind speed is generated by the large spinnaker". It is one of the few dinghies - alongside FD and GP14- going with a genoa upwind.
Stats per some sites - Osprey genny 4.65 sq m laser 2000 3.04 sq m
Osprey spinnaker 17.2 sq m Laser 2000 10.02 sq m
(nb different sites so can't guarantee measurement basis identical but sounds right)

Beautiful boats the Osprey, but the ones I have seen raced effectively tended to have 2 large males as crew. More light crews in other boats

I can tolerate the FD, but if anyone mentions Osprey & GP14 in the same sentence again I may have to visit them and put a bat up their nightdress in the small hours. I just said it but I think I got away with it...

I think the weight on shore may be an issue, but never had a snag with the ( standard ) foresail; I suppose it is a genoa as it overlaps, but not by much compared to say my Anderson 22s'.

I didn't get the impression the OP is after competitive racing ? Even if that should be the case I would expect the boats' stability and seakindliness to hold her own OK; I'll shut up about ****** Ospreys now !

 

[rwoofer]

Not sure were all this Osprey praise is coming from. It is a great racing boat, but I really don't think it is a family boat. It was actually designed for the Olympics as a competitor to the FD, so that should hint at what it was designed to do. It needed a trapeze cause it was originally often raced by 3 people.

All this from the class website.

 

[Seajet]

Not sure were all this Osprey praise is coming from. It is a great racing boat, but I really don't think it is a family boat. It was actually designed for the Olympics as a competitor to the FD, so that should hint at what it was designed to do. It needed a trapeze cause it was originally often raced by 3 people.

All this from the class website.

From experience of owning one and sailing it for both racing and tootling around the harbour & Solent, usually with inexperienced crew ?

 

[arfa]

The OP returns.....!
What I am looking for is something where the ballast(Dad) and daughter can have a cracking time on the water with a bit of responsiveness without the old boy (me) getting arthritis by having to crouch in the center of the boat to maintain stability.
The chances are I will be on the helm alot but I want my daughter to be able to take the helm alot too so she can learn.
I have ruled out mirrors & wayfarers as being a bit dull, RS Fevas & 200's as being too feisty for tubbs here and I don't want to trapeze (in case I break the mast) and full on spinnakers are for after we have mastered a gennaker.
A bit of zip is important (as that is what lights the flame of imagination for the future) but a balancing act is too much.
Hence the inclination towards the 2k and the Osprey, both of which I intend to sail in the near future

 

[rwoofer]

From experience of owning one and sailing it for both racing and tootling around the harbour & Solent, usually with inexperienced crew ?

Straight from the class association website:

"With a UK RYA Portsmouth Number Yardstick handicap number of 940 this is a fast exciting boat to sail. The Osprey relies on the traditional values of boat design, dating back to the 1950’s, to achieve its speed. An Osprey doesn’t struggle upwind only to fly on the downhill leg, it’s simply fast all over the course.

Upwind performance is catered for by a large over-lapping Genoa, whereas off-wind speed is generated by the large spinnaker emerging from the ‘chute."

Two large sails needed for it's speed aren't really the best combination for a small light crew.....IMHO

 

[fireball]

The Osprey and 2k are wildly different boats - I know cos I race against an Osprey and have crewed and helmed a 2k in their open circuits and at club level.

2K in anything under a F5 is docile - easy to 'single hand' and very stable (I walked around the gunnels when we tested one).
When capsized it does tend to turtle - but if you're prone then add a float to the top of the mast.
It's ideal to learn to helm or crew in ...

The Osprey is a much faster boat - I don't know the handling techniques - but it will be much more of a handful than a 2k in the same winds - IMHO probably too much for a 12yo to learn in - but it won't be long ....

 

[arfa]

In light of all the responses (which have all been interesting) the 2k is probably the right boat for the following reasons:
no need for trapeezing
no full on spinnaker
2k is lighter and easier to handle for less strong crews.
Don't get me wrong, with a properly trained crew, the osprey wins hands down !