Diesel Hybrid yacht ... brilliant explanation.

[XDC]

If you don't want to watch the whole episode the tech stuff starts at 23.02

If you think that putting a thoroughly modern system into a (new) classic yacht is wrong, just about every comment I read agreed with him .... one I liked was that when Tally Ho had its first paraffin engine, that was state of the art then, so why not now?

Is this anywhere near what the two guys with the Colvic (?) were planning? They left me a bit behind with their plans ?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

How much does it cost compared to a bog standard diesel? As an example, a hybrid diesel electric system is available as an option for a new Broadblue 346, a 33' catamaran, much smaller and lighter than that boat, yet it costs £86k for the hybrid system. That's beyond the reach of most buyers.

Other than that the usual problems will apply - batteries have a very low power density, both for weight and volume, even lithium ones. What is the speed/range on battery power for a hefty boat like that? 3 knots for 20 minutes maybe? And as discussed on another thread - a propeller designed for propulsion makes a poor turbine, and vice versa.

one I liked was that when Tally Ho had its first paraffin engine, that was state of the art then, so why not now?

Because adding an engine to an engineless boat was a step change in functionality and the cost/benefit analysis (not called that at the time, but still would have been done) showed that the cost was worthwhile. However, putting in a hybrid system is not an increase in functionality over a plain diesel system, and of questionable environmental benefit when looking at the extra environmental cost of producing the system. The cost/benefit analysis would also be dubious.

 

[DJE]

Looking at the materials he is using I don't think cost is too much of a problem on this project.

 

[Sybarite]

How much does it cost compared to a bog standard diesel? As an example, a hybrid diesel electric system is available as an option for a new Broadblue 346, a 33' catamaran, much smaller and lighter than that boat, yet it costs £86k for the hybrid system. That's beyond the reach of most buyers.

Other than that the usual problems will apply - batteries have a very low power density, both for weight and volume, even lithium ones. What is the speed/range on battery power for a hefty boat like that? 3 knots for 20 minutes maybe? And as discussed on another thread - a propeller designed for propulsion makes a poor turbine, and vice versa.



Because adding an engine to an engineless boat was a step change in functionality and the cost/benefit analysis (not called that at the time, but still would have been done) showed that the cost was worthwhile. However, putting in a hybrid system is not an increase in functionality over a plain diesel system, and of questionable environmental benefit when looking at the extra environmental cost of producing the system. The cost/benefit analysis would also be dubious.

Have a look at the site "Sailing Uma" on Youtube.

They threw out the diesel and substituted an electric motor along with a bank of lithium batteries. Cooking is by induction and they have an electric oven.

 

[RobinBirch]

Hybrid - why not if the generosity of his Patreons support it? In Leo's shoes, I'd be carefully looking at the cost to complete the project and how that is to be funded.

 

[Dogone]

This is a triumph of hope over reality.

 

[TernVI]

The triumph of youtube over viewers?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

They threw out the diesel and substituted an electric motor along with a bank of lithium batteries. Cooking is by induction and they have an electric oven.

The hybrid Broadblue has that cooking feature too. Cooking requires a huge amount of energy from the batteries, which solar won't be able to replace in our climate, so it's on with the generator for anything more than a cup of tea when away from shore power. How's that helping the environment or reducing emissions? The answer - it isn't. It's youtube fuelled wokery.

 

[Seven Spades]

Hybrid - why not if the generosity of his Patreons support it? In Leo's shoes, I'd be carefully looking at the cost to complete the project and how that is to be funded.

Leo gets an average of 400,000 views per episode, second only to La Vagabond. Delos by comparison only get 150,000 these days. His income stream will easily be sufficient to fund this project.

 

[RobinBirch]

Seven Spades
Good point

 

[Blueboatman]

Leo’s lucid videos and progressively, methodical and highly organised and delegated approach to a restoration are an absolute masterclass in wooden ‘ can do’, I think. University of YouTube school of woodworking ??
Whether his expertise and pockets can extend to an evolving, hybridised auxiliary power technology, I know far too little to offer comment !
Except that there seem to be even more bits to go wrong.

I do love the Uma install . Maintenance free motoring.. though even they had to work hard once they introduced regen, leg, and non fixed propellor.. all ( more) bits to go wrong..

It is quite probable that this years expensive “Best solution “will be surpassed next year by... who knows what .. underwater coppercladding cum PV panels that charge and repel barnacles simultaneously ?? ?

 

[Tomahawk]

Hybrid seems very OTT. But a deisel electric installation does seem more sensible. Put the engine where the weight is best. Then mount the drive somewhere totally different with an azipod that can be fully retracted from the water. That way you get a properly efficient prop for motoring and smooth hull for sailing.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Hybrid seems very OTT. But a deisel electric installation does seem more sensible. Put the engine where the weight is best. Then mount the drive somewhere totally different with an azipod that can be fully retracted from the water. That way you get a properly efficient prop for motoring and smooth hull for sailing.

The most compelling use case would be for a catamaran which could have 1 engine instead of 2. All the technology is available, but I'm not aware of any manufacturer that offers it. I suspect the cost would be huge and the weight and space saving minimal, or maybe even worse, compared to separate engines. It's been touted in the past for trucks, but has never taken off. Is its use widespread anywhere other than railway locomotives?

 

[Stemar]

Early adopters of any technology always pay a premium for that technology and do so in the face of the derision of the naysayers. I can imaging similar conversations about those new fangled infernal combustion engines, with much told you so shaking of the head as they passed one with the bonnet open.

Will the system on Tally Ho work as Leo hopes? Only time will tell, but his attitude with the whole build is that he's using the very best techniques and materials he can as custodian of the boat for future owners. If he's making a living out of it at the same time, good luck to him. It is, of course, a mad thing to do, he could have got a plastic boat for way less money than he's already spent, and been away sailing years ago, but I, and one or two others, it seems, are enjoying his insanity.

 

[Stemar]

The most compelling use case would be for a catamaran which could have 1 engine instead of 2. All the technology is available, but I'm not aware of any manufacturer that offers it. I suspect the cost would be huge and the weight and space saving minimal, or maybe even worse, compared to separate engines. It's been touted in the past for trucks, but has never taken off. Is its use widespread anywhere other than railway locomotives?

Seems to me that the problem is that the engine needs to be low down and central. With a cat, you can pick one or other. I could certainly see it working with a cruising monohull, though. If I were rich enough, my ideal boat would be something like a Southerly with an azipod ahead of each rudder and the generator engine where it needs to be for weight distribution - and LOTS of LiFePO batteries

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I have always thought the combination of traditional and old can be very functional, efficient and aesthetically pleasing. On a new boat like this, why not have a modern power plant that will take up less room, be more efficient and likely more powerful than the original. Same for the rigging, why not a modern rope material, or sails.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Early adopters of any technology always pay a premium for that technology and do so in the face of the derision of the naysayers. I can imaging similar conversations about those new fangled infernal combustion engines, with much told you so shaking of the head as they passed one with the bonnet open.

No, it's not about it being a new technology, it's about the physics. Early internal combustion engines had the necessary physics - energy density of the fuel - but were limited by manufacturing at the time. Battery power for vehicles is limited by the physics. From the American Physics Society...

Stored energy in fuel is considerable: gasoline is the champion at 47.5 MJ/kg and 34.6 MJ/liter. A lithium-ion battery pack has about 0.3 MJ/kg and about 0.4 MJ/liter (Chevy VOLT). Gasoline thus has about 100 times the energy density of a lithium-ion battery.

I shake my head at the impractically low energy density and high cost, not because it's new. I'm all for new technology when there's a definite benefit (I have a carbon mast and sails for example), but can see through the youtube wokery that promotes impractical solutions like battery powered sea-going boats.

I'm also accused of being a carbon burning dinosaur. That is also untrue. I believe in getting carbon emissions down but I believe that boat propulsion is not the best way to spend the money needed to do it. Much better, for example, would be subsidised or free house insulation upgrade for everyone who wanted it as a simple, doable solution with a positive cost/benefit.

 

[Gary Fox]

I'm curious how much the batteries will weigh, and how much space they will occupy,,, compared to the original internal ballast.
Can they safely cope with seawater sloppping about? Can they be lifted at sea to fix a leak?
Will this classic style gaff cutter be covered in ugly solar panels?
I think a Beta factory 240v alternator, expensive house batteries and an invertor would have been better.

 

[Seven Spades]

Watt and Sea now offer a hull mounted water generator and I was very tempted to have one fitted last lift out but I was concerned that it might whine all the time and that it would drive me mad. This system will require the prop to turn all the time for regen to work I wonder if the noise will irritate Leo.

 

[Gary Fox]

Yacht propellers are fairly useless as water driven turbines, VP or not.