Diesel fuel stabiliser.

[Tomsdad]

Hi everyone.

We have a “new to us” boat. Its a Fjord 930 AC. 32 foot cruiser. So there will be lots of questions as the months unfold and I get to know what we have bought. It has 2 x Volvo Penta tamd 31 engines. Not sure if they are A or B.

My first concern with winter coming is the diesel fuel stabilisation. Although we will visit the boat and run the engines every couple of weeks,
Never had diesel engines in a boat before so need advice.
The fuel tanks are 864 litres ( not sure if that’s each or combined, but they are 3/4 full, and fuel could be quite old already).

Worried about “ microbial growth” for a start.

What do I do?

Any help gratefully received.

 

[alahol2]

There was a recent thread that touched on this, here... https://forums.ybw.com/posts/8666660/bookmark

Edit.. That doesn't seem to work... Don't know how to do it...

 

[Malish]

There was a recent thread that touched on this, here... https://forums.ybw.com/posts/8666660/bookmark

your link is to a bookmark of yours (delete the word book mark and it works)

The general view on running the engines every couple of weeks over the close season is: don't, unless you are going to do some miles to get them good and warm, it does more harm than good. Better to winterize and forget until the spring.

 

[Tomsdad]

Don’t know what to make of that thread. We have great sunny winter days when we will take the boat out for a few hours. So don’t want to lay it up till spring. I was more interested to find out what additives to use.

 

[Refueler]

The main concern is when you filled up with diesel fuel.

The reason is that for summer - straight diesel with CFPP of about -5 to -7C is sold ... but for winter .. regions start to sell a different spec of diesel based on -12 .. -16C CFPP ...

Basically diesel is sold in 'seasonal' variants ...

The question is what winter temps do you experience where you are ? If they dip into negative temps then >
If you have tanks with significant volumes of summer based fuel - a quick solution is to add some straight forecourt gasoline ... yes .. I say it again ... adding of straight forecourt gasoline will winterise your diesel ... in UK - about a 5% max should be more than enough ... what it does is break up the Parafins that drop out at low temps and block filters. Gasoline into diesel fuel should not harm your engine in mild doses - unlike diesel into gasoline for gasoline engines !
Nanuk Diesel for Arctic use is actually DPK .... Dual Purpose Kerosine .... or Lamp Oil to you !! Just illustrating ..

But if the temps only hover around the zero mark ... then you should be able to ignore and not add gasoline.

You mention microbial growth .... OK ... that can be dealt with ... but I advise to use an ENZYME based treatment ... why ? Any microbial content will be killeed and then the enzyme base will break it up so it can be burnt off in the engines. If you use a non enzyme based additive - you may end up with dead bio in tank bottom.
So get yourself some Enzyme Additive ... add a decent dose to each tank and then forget about it.

 

[thinwater]

Note: You can't stabilize or bio-treat a full tank on a boat that is laid up. The additive needs to be mixed in, which means a significant fill. If you just pour it in it will most likely go straight to the bottom or crystalize, depending on the formula.

 

[Refueler]

Note: You can't stabilize or bio-treat a full tank on a boat that is laid up. The additive needs to be mixed in, which means a significant fill. If you just pour it in it will most likely go straight to the bottom or crystalize, depending on the formula.

I do not normally disagree with you - but that is not wholly correct.

Agree that when additivation is conducted to cargoes - the additive is usually injected into the pipeline flow. But in the cases of treating static tanks - it can be introduced. For immediate transfer of tank contents - if fited with circulation system .. it may be utilised. But usually the tanks will be left as is.

Ships - after loading and if testing indicates a parameter needs correction - depending on the ships setup - it can be pumped in 'over the top' as we say .. that is plates in the deck are lifted and additive poured or pumped in. If the ship has Framo systems (individual in tank cargo pumps) then usually it will have a circulation line - then additive may be introduced into that line - if ship owner agrees to the increased fuel consumption ...

Years of providing .. injecting ... pouring additives has resulted in all cases we covered - correction of the cargo.

All additives we used .. use and also I include off the shelf for such as yachties etc ... has solvents in to not only maintain the additive - but also to aid its diffusion into the product designed for. I dose my own boats tanks at intervals whether afloat or ashore and never had any occurrence of crystalisation. I accept that some additive may drop to bottom - but that depends on density / viscosity / temperature etc. The solvents used are designed to help overcome that ..

Just to add .. when we pass samples / additive to the lab to test for what % addition to make - they dont always agitate the mixing .. why ? They try to simulate the job that will be made. So if lab is told - there will be no circulation / inline flow to mix the additive .. they will be asked - in my company anyway and when we supervise others - to just drop the additive into the sample ... leave for a short while - extract a test sample .. measure parameters ... and then later extract another test sample to see if any long term reduction.

In the case of the OP ... If he should be concerned about this ... being diesel - he could always drop a small hose into the tank and use a hand air pump to aerate the fuel .... please DO NOT do this with Gasoline or Kerosine !
Or even easier ..... dilute the additive by taking fuel from the tanks - or fresh fuel ... before pouring into the tanks.

Note : Just to give an idea of how long I've been doing this sort of work :

Saudi Arabia - Al Jubail. Joined SGS there in 1989. We were already pouring from 45 gal drums Pour Point and CFPP depressant via deck manholes for Diesel fuel. Octane boosters via manholes into Gasoline.... and other additives.
In 1993 - moved to Baltics / Russia and there was involved in setting up the first full service Additive Unit with Petrak. Later created my own companys to do the work.
Work conducted in Baltics / Russia, Singapore, China, Europoort, Le Havre, Antwerp ... list is extensive .. but covers all manner of additives incl Bio treatment ...

Above is NOT intended as a CV - its there to show I actually do the job. Its actually a job I no longer enjoy and have passed onto managers in my companys .. at near 70 yrs old - I need a rest !! And get back to boats..

 

[dunedin]

Don’t know what to make of that thread. We have great sunny winter days when we will take the boat out for a few hours. So don’t want to lay it up till spring. I was more interested to find out what additives to use.

Welcome to the forum.

Not sure where you are based but may help if indicate rough location, as some respondents so far live in non UK places subject to severe winters.

In the UK yes you can enjoy use of your boat in the many nice days through winter without needing to do a layup. We go out regularly in winter in Scotland.

The poster Refueler is a professional expert in furls so knows his stuff. But can be a bit technical.
If in doubt look up the Marine 16 brand of products as very well regarded, which we use.

If there are tank inspection hatches may be worth trying to extract sample from bottom of tanks. But not always possible.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks D ... but I would not class myself as Expert .. I just make my living from Fuels and Crudes.

As Fuels evolve .. Govt's interfere with blends etc .. the field is changing and company's like mine have to 'go with the flow' ... all of us are always still learning.

 

[Freebee]

Nobody has mentioned yet that you should make an attempt to check and remove any water from the bottom of the tank , the water bottom is where the microbes are propagated. If you have a tank drain point this is easy, if not there are a few ways to check a dipstick smeared with kolorcut fuel paste will change colour if water is present or dip the bottom of tank with a small rigid tube and suck up a sample with a sump oil extractor...mix in your biocide in a bucket of clean fuel first and add the mix to the tank....and slightly contentious purchase a fuel polisher off eBay or somewhere and pass the whole tankful through the system every 3 months..

 

[Refueler]

Water extraction ... yes.

Kolor Kut paste ... is that available over the counter ? I buy boxes of it but from industrial outlet.

Fuel Polisher ... basically a circulation filter system ... I can see its use if crud etc collects - but as a Micro treatment ? Cannot see it honestly. Use of an Enzyme based Micro Bio additive breaks up the micro bio it kills and allows it to pass into engine to be burnt off. Only time filtering IMHO - is if the problem has been allowed to get to point fuel filters block. Then the amount of dead bug - usually in its early stages as a sludge .. can overwhelm and get dragged into the engine fuel filters. Then a combination of Enzyme treatment of fuel while IN THE tank - leave for a period to start attacking the sludge - then empty tank to containers to let additive do its work in the containers.
Syphon out the tank bottom or pump old fuel back in - stirring up the tank while syphoning out...

Usually letting the fuel stand in containers will have crud settle out .. the addiditive working as breaking up any suspended etc. Pumping through filters can of course speed this up by removing particulate.

It all depends of course on the access to tanks ... internal baffles of tanks etc etc and of course volume of fuel !

 

[Sianna]

We add Marine 16 at every fill up, so far no signs of the dreaded Diesel bug after 6 years of ownership, I always inspect the fuel filters when I change them, it can give an early warning of DB.



Pardon our interruption...

 

[Freebee]

Kolor Kut paste ... is that available over the counter ? I buy boxes of it but from industrial outlet.

Kolorkut paste can be bought from Amazon UK -may not be the cheapest and I am sure its available from other sources as well -useful stuff!

 

[thinwater]

I do not normally disagree with you - but that is not wholly correct.

Agree that when additivation is conducted to cargoes - the additive is usually injected into the pipeline flow. But in the cases of treating static tanks - it can be introduced. For immediate transfer of tank contents - if fited with circulation system .. it may be utilised. But usually the tanks will be left as is.

Ships - after loading and if testing indicates a parameter needs correction - depending on the ships setup - it can be pumped in 'over the top' as we say .. that is plates in the deck are lifted and additive poured or pumped in. If the ship has Framo systems (individual in tank cargo pumps) then usually it will have a circulation line - then additive may be introduced into that line - if ship owner agrees to the increased fuel consumption ...

Years of providing .. injecting ... pouring additives has resulted in all cases we covered - correction of the cargo.

All additives we used .. use and also I include off the shelf for such as yachties etc ... has solvents in to not only maintain the additive - but also to aid its diffusion into the product designed for. I dose my own boats tanks at intervals whether afloat or ashore and never had any occurrence of crystalisation. I accept that some additive may drop to bottom - but that depends on density / viscosity / temperature etc. The solvents used are designed to help overcome that ..

Just to add .. when we pass samples / additive to the lab to test for what % addition to make - they dont always agitate the mixing .. why ? They try to simulate the job that will be made. So if lab is told - there will be no circulation / inline flow to mix the additive .. they will be asked - in my company anyway and when we supervise others - to just drop the additive into the sample ... leave for a short while - extract a test sample .. measure parameters ... and then later extract another test sample to see if any long term reduction.

In the case of the OP ... If he should be concerned about this ... being diesel - he could always drop a small hose into the tank and use a hand air pump to aerate the fuel .... please DO NOT do this with Gasoline or Kerosine !
Or even easier ..... dilute the additive by taking fuel from the tanks - or fresh fuel ... before pouring into the tanks.

Note : Just to give an idea of how long I've been doing this sort of work :

Saudi Arabia - Al Jubail. Joined SGS there in 1989. We were already pouring from 45 gal drums Pour Point and CFPP depressant via deck manholes for Diesel fuel. Octane boosters via manholes into Gasoline.... and other additives.
In 1993 - moved to Baltics / Russia and there was involved in setting up the first full service Additive Unit with Petrak. Later created my own companys to do the work.
Work conducted in Baltics / Russia, Singapore, China, Europoort, Le Havre, Antwerp ... list is extensive .. but covers all manner of additives incl Bio treatment ...

Above is NOT intended as a CV - its there to show I actually do the job. Its actually a job I no longer enjoy and have passed onto managers in my companys .. at near 70 yrs old - I need a rest !! And get back to boats..

All true. But I have seen additives (biocide) used at standard dosage crystalize and drop out when there was no mixing. I was surprised, since the product was mostly cellosolve with some naptha, but it happened in front of my eyes, in the lab many times and in the field once. And then there is the matter of baffles.

I'm not naming names. This was 10 years ago and after I reported the problem they refomulated (a good company).

If the OP has a circulation system that would change things. But I still think the advice to add with a significant fill is best.

 

[Refueler]

All true. But I have seen additives (biocide) used at standard dosage crystalize and drop out when there was no mixing. I was surprised, since the product was mostly cellosolve with some naptha, but it happened in front of my eyes, in the lab many times and in the field once. And then there is the matter of baffles.

I'm not naming names. This was 10 years ago and after I reported the problem they refomulated (a good company).

If the OP has a circulation system that would change things. But I still think the advice to add with a significant fill is best.

Older additives - yes they could do strange things ...

I have a few containers of various additives in my garden ... left overs from when I stopped doing it here in Latvia ... guy who bought land next to me - he's boss of a company that undercut everyone in the latvian market .... after working in a company that I was shreholder !!

H2S scavenger - if left for signoficant period and cold - can separate out the Formadehyde and Wax factions ... you get a two colour IBC content then .. white below a dark brown upper. It still works though - just have to make sure injection pump draws both out ..
CFPP / Pour Point depressant can separate into solvent / active parts.

But this is old additives - most additives today are stable. When it comes to additives for such as boating / trucking etc ... the days of unstable additives are long gone. The component chemicals used have mostly been revised .. evolved etc. Its why I basically cannot sell on the additive standng next to my barn .. its old form. One day I will sort and get rid of them ...

Best way to add additive - is of course when refilling tank .. as the agitation will mix it quickly. But with modern additives such as M16 .. Startron .. etc - you can add to static tanks with reasonable results.

 

[Refueler]

Kolorkut paste can be bought from Amazon UK -may not be the cheapest and I am sure its available from other sources as well -useful stuff!

OK .. never knew that - being an industrial user - the quantites we use means we buy boxes via industrial outlets.

 

[thinwater]

Older additives - yes they could do strange things ...

I have a few containers of various additives in my garden ... left overs from when I stopped doing it here in Latvia ... guy who bought land next to me - he's boss of a company that undercut everyone in the latvian market .... after working in a company that I was shreholder !!

H2S scavenger - if left for signoficant period and cold - can separate out the Formadehyde and Wax factions ... you get a two colour IBC content then .. white below a dark brown upper. It still works though - just have to make sure injection pump draws both out ..
CFPP / Pour Point depressant can separate into solvent / active parts.

But this is old additives - most additives today are stable. When it comes to additives for such as boating / trucking etc ... the days of unstable additives are long gone. The component chemicals used have mostly been revised .. evolved etc. Its why I basically cannot sell on the additive standng next to my barn .. its old form. One day I will sort and get rid of them ...

Best way to add additive - is of course when refilling tank .. as the agitation will mix it quickly. But with modern additives such as M16 .. Startron .. etc - you can add to static tanks with reasonable results.

Yes, Startron is quite able to mix by diffusion. M16 is not common in the US.

But I was talking specifically about biocides. That the sort I noticed the most trouble with. Not Biobor.

 

[Refueler]

We add Marine 16 at every fill up, so far no signs of the dreaded Diesel bug after 6 years of ownership, I always inspect the fuel filters when I change them, it can give an early warning of DB.



Pardon our interruption...

Just to make a point :

M16 is more a preventative measure. Any micro that gets introduced to your tank when you top up somewhere - will be sorted by the M16. That;s fine ...

But ...

In the event of a serious case and the liklihood of it having been for significant period - building up not only 'crap' from the living micro - but also the sludge from dead ... the M16 will not be the answer. This is why I advocate an Enzyme based product. The Enzyme will attack the sludge - breaking it up ... as well as breaking down any moisture ... both then passing through engine.
You may still have to syphon out the tank bottom - but at least the Enzyme will assist in the job.

You guys should at least thank the stars that one type of Micro Bio is virtually erdicated now .... this being SRB .... Sulphur Reducing Bacteria ... with the reduction to extremely low levels of Sulphur in the diesel fuel now - SRB's are literally not found any more.
SRB's do not live in the water interface ... they live in the fuel.
Its also of note that Bugs as nicknamed actually covers 3 forms : Yeasts, Molds and Bacteria ... they are not all one form.

 

[Refueler]

Yes, Startron is quite able to mix by diffusion. M16 is not common in the US.

But I was talking specifically about biocides. That the sort I noticed the most trouble with. Not Biobor.

Ok .. point noted ..

 

[Tradewinds]

Can you mix M16 and Startron - if you already have the tank treated with either?