Depreciation After Loosing Red

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I see more people switching over, or should it be back to, displacement boats. I think that SD boats will be the worst sector hit as the must go fast <u>at all costs</u> brigade, (I was once a member, before I discovered sanity) move to more economical planing boats and those more concerned about cash will go to displacement speeds.

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Being a member to the fast at all costs brigade before discovering sanity is a very funny way to put it...
We seem to share the same experience in that respect, so I can fully understand your point!
Not sure about your view on SD boats, though.
In fact, it's true that they're less efficient than planing boats when cruising at speed, but they do have the option of cruising at D speed with an efficiency and comfort almost equivalent to full D boats, something planing boats can't offer.
My guess is that at least some of the fast at all cost brigade will also discover sanity (not all of them are football players or movie actors), but will put some value in having the option of occasional fast(ish) cruises.
Using your words, actually just a few will discover sanity and go for (or back to, as you correctly say) full D boats.
Some others - probably even more overall - wil not reach the ...full sanity stage. Or not immediately.
That's why also SD (not only full D) boats will tend to increase their market share.
All imho, as always.
 
I doubt that there will be a huge growth in Displacement motorboat ownership. Surely you may as well stick a sail on the top and buy a sailboat that is well equiped, think oyster or HR.

In the longrun I am sure I will end up with a Sailing Catamaran.....even if I have to berth her in France. I would like a nice displacement motorcat of about 34 ft but there are bugger all around.

I have looked at SD's but because they have the ability to go fast I would use them on full tilt most of the time. For me it is about controlling costs, so alternatives have to be found.

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Yes, but it will, Ari, it will. See, we use our boat a lot, but if fuel goes to £1.20 a litre then a weekend run to Weymouth or Cherbourg is going to cost the thick end of £500. At that point, we either start trying to find ways to reduce the impact (charter, home-brew bio etc) or we restrict our boating. Now, we could cut from 150 hours down to 100 hours a year and it wouldn't be that bad. If someone who does 50 hours or less a year halves their usage, they'll start to think seriously about the capital tied up in the boat, the mooring costs, insurance etc in terms of the usage they get. Then people start to think about the value they're getting and start selling up.
 
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"I will certainly be looking for a nice Broom "...............do my eyes deceave me Fred, have you suddenly warmed to net curtains and slippers :~)

[/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Net curtains on a broom - no way, and what's "pipe and slippers" about this?

Broom%20530ac%20Cover%20Pic.jpg
 
Corn oil, 55p/l I run my landrover on it at 50% mix with pump diesel. the boat is less discerning it runs on much greater concentrations of oil but run it does, mind you it is an old 6.5l ford

It seems very tolerant to whatever goes in the tank, last years o/b petrol, old engine oil, as long as its well filtered and there is some diesel in there somewhere it just runs with no loss of power or change in engine note.

I also have used it (from Makro at 25p/l) in portugal where you can only get pump diesel at almost uk prices. hard when you want 1500l to top up. Thinking of going round to gib to fill up this year. should do me for a few seasons.
 
I think its very interesting getting viewpoints from people in different circumstances.. The large boat owner, the guys in the trade and small boats etc.

From a personal viewpoint the phrase 'Straw that breaks the camels back' springs to mind.
With many of my hobbies and interests i'll tollerate rising costs time and time again until it gets to a point where it becomes ridiculous and things have to change.

For example, i've been running a V8 powered sports car as a daily driver for some time now and have watched my fuel prices increase.. has it stopped me driving it every day? well for a good while, no.. but its got to a point now that the costs are outweighing the enjoyment of driving the car so somethings gonna have to change.

On the boat front, im one of those small Petrol boat people. Same rules apply. I tollerate the rising costs until that rationality switch in my head kicks in and the costs outweigh the fun.
I have been looking for a while for another midrange diesel boat and all i can say is at the moment im not parting with my money due to the upcoming red diesel issue. Im just being sensible.

Boats for 90% of people are a fantastic but very expensive luxuaries.
Yes i'm sure there are a percentage of people who for whatever reason will continue to use their boats in exactly the same way undettered by the rising cost.
However, with the overall cost of living in the UK already very high and increasing, (utility bills etc etc) plus a general economic downturn, i think a significant number of 'cost conscious' boat owners are gonna change their boating trends when red diesel becomes 100% dearer (approx)

Its a big straw on that poor camel's back!

Hey anything is possible but with the market forces in the UK i expect midrange diesel powered boats to suffer.

I hope im wrong but from an average 'punters' perspective thats how i see it.

regards,

Nick
 
one aspect we ve not discussed is the theoretical actual selling.OK, make your own numbers up, but lets say your 35ft boat is "worth" £150k, and your new fuel bill is an extra £2500.
Maybe at some point of a selling price, you decide to keep it for now. I mean, would you sell it for £100K ? 125? 135?
 
I think boats that are capable of being used as a good "live aboard" will suffer less than those are less flexible. I think people will use their boats for traveling far less, and yet spend more time in the marina and more time on small trips.

I also think friends and relatives who join the owner on trips, will not mind chipping in towards the rising costs as well!

People who spend a large proportion of their disposable income on a boat, do so because they are living tghe dream and are unlikely to give their dream up for anyone....They'll just adjust their life to accommodate their beloved pastime! IMHO anyway! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Here's a question. How many threads have we had on this forum from people saying that the rise in fuel costs alone is going to make them give up boating?

And bear in mind that most people on here would be regarded as the "serious boater", rather than the bloke who keeps his boat in Lymington or wherever for the odd weekend as many do.

As I've said before, boating was never a sound financial choice of hobby, people don't do it because it's good value. You can't apply normal rules of sound financial logic, if you did, no one would be boating in the first place.
 
Quite agree!

People enter into boating more because of their heart than their wallet as it is certainly not a sensible financial investment.

That's makes me feel that giving up boating would not be such a knee jerk decision, although their initial reaction might be negative!

Garry
 
There are those that will always have a knee jerk reaction and just quit. Those are the guys who lose a lot in depreciation.

In the long run the UK boating fraternity will find a new equilibrium, whether that be SD/D boats are just less use of the big planning machines. My worry is that lots of old GRP boats will become unwanted and unloved and will slowly fade away.

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
There's certainly some worst case scenario stuff on here. Gludy's five factors include global economic downturn and oil prices rising, but it would be a tad unusual if both these things happen, as one tends to affect the other. If you look at most European boat builders, they are busier than they've ever been, so prices are still going up, which will serve to hold up second hand prices. There's also no factoring in of the market outside the UK, where there is no loss of special tax derogations, where other currencies are strengthening against the pound, and where lots of countries are generating levels of individual wealth that will create a market for second hand boats, but with no significant internal supply.

So it may make sense to choose a brand that is established across Europe, and be prepared to work a bit harder to find a sale outside the UK, but as someone else said, its never made finacial sense to own a boat, and with all factors taken together I'm not sure it makes any less sense now.
 
You may well be right! A boat has been an important part of our lives for many years in my family - and our biggest 'luxury'. Of course, I regard it as essential rather than a luxury but my bank manager might think otherwise.
I justify a large chunk of the cost by asking what it would cost to take a holiday other than in the boat. OK, we are going to be very happy with the Channel Islands and Brittany but we are not long-haul flying to the tropics or Australia and paying hotel bills. And we don't go to winter sports any more. Our children now have their own interests but I would think the cost of a family holiday along the lines I have indicated above would represent a fair whack of my boating costs apart from berthing. We can manage berthing and maintenance with care but as we are only working part time now, we, probably like others, will certainly have to think before we decide on the spur of the moment go down to the I-O-W for lunch and evening out.
 
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Gludy's five factors include global economic downturn and oil prices rising,

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Neither of which are remotely relevent to the question regarding whether loss of Red Diesel will affect boat prices.
 
I'm sure gludy will argue that the loss of red diesel has in itself caused the economic downturn and oil prices to rise and therefore any downturn in the boating market whatsoever will be caused by the loss of red diesel /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Hi Froggie its a reference to Freds continuous light hearted jibs at me and my Broom Crown which I had at Chatham before I went to Spain. He kept saying net curtains etc, whereas I didn thave any on mine. Actually his lady wife loved the boat when we went on a trip around Sheppey.
 
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I'm sure gludy will argue that the loss of red diesel has in itself caused the economic downturn and oil prices to rise and therefore any downturn in the boating market whatsoever will be caused by the loss of red diesel /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Good point, hadn't thought of that!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Thats fair comment Nick,

I am biased (as always) so everyone will take what I have to say with a pinch of salt I am sure.

From my end and certainly at the top end of the 40 - 50' market there seems little change if anything this year was better than last, what I am seeing though is a 50/50 split between Uk buyers heading to the med and those staying here.

In the past I guess one could put up with the iffy weather on the basis that fuel was so much cheaper, now that has gone so perhaps another push towards moving south if that was something that you may have considered in the past.

Personally and I know I ll be hammered for saying so but big shaft drive stuff on the S/H market is taking a beating in the UK, a £150k £200k 45 fly with twin 500 / 600's (ish) is do'able at current fuel prices. Many at this level are financing at least 50% of the boat so the monthlys are a big factor, when peeps add in that on top of their £2000 a month fiinace another £1000 for fuel during the season that stings, its 50% of the cost of the monthly of the boat!. Its not rational sure cus there is depreciation, the money you have already invested, the berthing but those tend to drift to back of you mind once you have the boat and you know its £2k a month, £500 in fuel you can manage, a grand and its more serious.

I would take issue with the displacement verses planing fuel economy debate. With IPS now coming on song in bigger numbers and nearly every builder worth his salt producing or about to introduce an IPS model and plans afoot to introduce more and more of their range optioned with IPS the fuel saving of displacement over planing is far less relevant. OK I am in sales mode /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but just to illustrate the point.......

.........An ABS 47 with twin IPS 600's at 25 knts is running at 1.65 mpg , a Nordhavn 47 with a single 173hp diesel at only 7.5 knts is burning fuel at a rate of 1.44 mpg.

Ok ok, so the Nordhavn is a tank of a machine and weighs a humungous amount but the point is don't think just cus you go displacement you will save buckets of money on fuel, stacked up against the best of IPS planing boats that doesn't work.

Ok so the ABS is a freak of nature maybe and a more realistic figure for others is around 1.2 mpg but if you are prepared to take a hard look at the stats and shop around at who does what the results can be quite startling. I should qualify this though by saying that not all IPS boats are fuel efficent, some are actually quite hideous to the point that one or two burn more fuel with twin 435hp engines at 27 knts than shaftdrives with twin 575 hp engines so a note of caution, its not a case of just bung in IPS units and start saving money it is a lot more complicated than that as some have already discovered.
 
thats not quite fair.. I understood him to be saying that because these factors are also against us, red diesel will have an affect. IE, red diesel isnt being offset by crashing oil etc etc.
He has decided that boat prices are going down, and red diesel will be a signficant cause.
But I think many of us have concluded that there are some boats that will be more at risk, and others maybe less so. And wasnt it always so...
 
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