Depreciation After Loosing Red

Gludy ! it must be sunny in Wales today, I dectect less doom & gloom in your post today. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Oh yes ! the glass is half full. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
well, maybe we are all a bit guilty of using a specific boat to support our own argument.
Clearly, some users with a larger fuel consumption who do alot of hours are faced with some nasty increases in costs, and many boaters with smaller LPH figures, who maybe potter happily about locally, are less likely to be chucking it all in. And yes, its not just the fuel costs increase, but a number of other factors come into play too.
I thought it interesting though to hear that quite a few new boaters dont even realise that fuel is cheap at present compared to road use.
I dont think its all doom and gloom, but whatever your motor boat, its going to get more expensive. Whether the hobby is still fun is a very personal decision, I think.
 
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You tell those who do use their boats to cruise and say 500 hours a year - what? That they are stupid to actually buy a boat and use it!!!?

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Gludy, you consistantly (and no doubt deliberately) miss the point.

The question was "will the implimentation of red diesel affect boat prices?"

It's no good arguing about rare extremes as you constantly do, almost no one does 500 hours a year my friend!!

You've got black and white examples in this very thread of the real cost for normal people. You've got the fact that there is no significent increase in boats for sale despite red diesel having been confirmed for months. You've got most of Europe happily getting on with non red diesel. In this whole thread, we've had, what, one person say they're going to get out because of it? (And how many say they're staying in?) The EVIDENCE is everywhere!

Tell me, if the government suddenly announced a £5K tax on houses with thatched roofs, would it decimate house prices? No of course not because it wouldn't affect the majority of house owners.

The mere fact that you have to argue economic downturn in a thread about red diesel to try and justify your position says it all. (And as you well know, I agree with you on that point, but it's not the one under discussion, loss of red diesel is). As is the fact that you have to try and spin my argument as being "vested interest". Even if you were correct (for once), it would'nt change the facts (which is what my argument consists of, rather than the stargazing yours does).

I said right at the start of this thread that I wasn't going to argue with you and here I am doing just that. But it's pointless because even if in ten years time secondhand boat prices have somehow tripled, you'll still argue that you are right and everyone else is wrong.
 
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32' twin shaft. £100 to fill the tank, will become say £220. 6 tanks for a decent season of up and down the river and Estuary goes from £600 to £1320. Difference of £720. Looks like not much until you bear in mind, as you consistently don't do, the differing levels of disposable income at the cheaper end for whom an extra £500 is your pub/new bits/day out in Legoland etc money. That is where it will bite, socialism boning the poor again.

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I dream of being able to afford a 32ft twin shaft drive diesel powerboat, so I'm afraid pleading poverty ("socialism boning the poor again") or claiming to be at the lower end of the disposable income scale doesn't cut much mustard I'm afraid. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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32' twin shaft. £100 to fill the tank, will become say £220. 6 tanks for a decent season of up and down the river and Estuary goes from £600 to £1320. Difference of £720. Looks like not much until you bear in mind, as you consistently don't do, the differing levels of disposable income at the cheaper end for whom an extra £500 is your pub/new bits/day out in Legoland etc money. That is where it will bite, socialism boning the poor again.

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I dream of being able to afford a 32ft twin shaft drive diesel powerboat, so I'm afraid pleading poverty ("socialism boning the poor again") or claiming to be at the lower end of the disposable income scale doesn't cut much mustard I'm afraid. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

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Boat is nearly 40 years old...
 
Precisely.
And there are also similar pleasure blue water boats, like this one for example.
Why and how IPS could improve the efficiency of these hulls, remains beyond me.
 
MapisM, are you serious? You know well enough that IPS is a replacement for shaftdrive not sterndrive so making a comparison between IPS and sterndrive is not valid
Due to power limitations and issues about handling, sterndrives tend to be limited to sub 40ft boats (OK there are a couple longer than this) whereas IPS is being fitted to many boats in the 40-60ft range so quite clearly IPS is a competitor for shaftdrive only
Obviously, it is impossible to design a single engined IPS displacement boat without the keel having some effect on water flow but at least the P bracket and shaft won't be in the way so IPS has got to be more efficient. I would be amazed if the likes of Nordhavn, Selene and Krogen are not looking very closely at IPS or the Cummins Zeus system
 
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MapisM, are you serious?

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Well, yes actually. I was using the sterndrives comparison just to reply to your point.
If as you said "IPS is more efficient because, firstly, the props are forward facing and the flow of water to the prop is not disturbed by a shaft/p bracket and, secondly, because duo props are used rather than single props", then how do you explain why sterndrives are even more efficient than IPS, when they can only exploit the second of these advantages?

Re.IPS on D hulls, the bracket and shaft aren't so much of a problem, for very simple reasons.
First of all, there's no such thing as the bracket you're talking about, on a single engine D hull.
Secondly, even the shaft has extremely limited - if any - interference with the water flow.
It's actually the whole hull, and the keel, that are in front of the prop!
And that can't be changed by any IPS.
Besides, if you look at the image below (further details into the site which I linked in my previous post), you'll see that "IPS" (sort of) on D hull was already invented.
But mind, the reasons for using azimuthing drives on workboats or trawlers are totally different from the reasons why IPS was developed.
In fact, in terms of pure efficiency (according to the builder, who made similar boats also with shaft), in the following boat shaft is slightly better.
65ch-fb-zdrv.jpg
 
Ari
I do not why i bother.
You never answer a direct question.
You invernt ' facts'
You ignore the evidence.
Amazing.
You also break promises not to argue with me!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Ari
I do not why i bother.
You never answer a direct question.
You invernt ' facts'
You ignore the evidence.
Amazing.
You also break promises not to argue with me!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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I rather think you're talking about yourself there mate. Read my posts, I use facts. Number of extra boats for sale since announcement of loss of red? Number of people on this board who say they're quitting because of it? Effect of motorboating in countries that don't have red diesel? Peoples actual cost examples (see further up the thread)? These are facts my friend, not your stargazing about what you think might happen.

But yes, you're right about the one about arguing with you, total waste of time since you're so totally focused on "winning the argument" rather than taking a balanced view.
 
Personally, I think the future rise in red will have an effect on the 'normal' leisure boater and by that I mean those of us who wash their own boats and not those who get a company in once a month to do it for them.

The loss of red will have an impact on the whole leisure marine industry as there'll be less money left from the boating pot to spend on the luxuries of eating out and the unnecessary toys for the boat.

Of course the cost of second hand boats will come down. Who in their right mind will go out to buy a diesel boat and not negotiate the price down below the normal offer price citing the looming loss of red as justification. You would wouldn't you? And if you're the seller of course you will accept less than before the loss of red was announced.

We've had the same boat for the last 7 years, bought new and now paid for so no mortgage to worry about. We've done anything between 80 and 200 hours a season, I'm guessing about 130 hrs per year as average. We average about 14 hours between fill ups which currently cost around £140, £1300 per season on fuel, at least doubling next year.

So for us we'll anchore a more often, eat on the boat more often, buy less boaty things and see how it goes. If the enjoyment doesn't justify the expense then it's bye bye to boating and we'll stomach the hit on the boat price and invest the money in a property abroad.
 
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Why not just move the boat abroad? Just over €1 per litre when I last filled up

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/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif That's another argument altogether....

It's a couple of seasons before We'll know how we feel about the cost, cheapish diesel this year and then next year to see how it all pans out.
 
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Why not just move the boat abroad? Just over €1 per litre when I last filled up

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Have you factored in the additional cost of getting to the boat? Our boat is 55 miles away, or thereabouts. An hour's drive, Hindhead permitting. We probably go to the boat three weekends in five during the season. Not very viable if its in Spain, might be more so on a time basis if you have more work flexiibility. As for cost, five in one car compares favourably to five airfares:-) I conclude that moving aborad is a solution for the time and cash rich who are less affected by the theft of red than the time/cash poor.
 
Andrew,

Well Put. It is the Time poor people (normally tied to a salaried full time job) who can not move their boating abroad. These people (us) are the ones stuck with government policy and will have to get used to it or find a new hobby!

My Parents have sold there boat here, moved to spain and are spending their money there on a new boat in the Sun!

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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