Depreciation After Loosing Red

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You miss the point - our road fuel prices are much higher than in the Med. All my friends who own cruising power boats agree with me and they have already acted or are acting on it.

There are 5 factors that are going to hit the power boat market hard:-

1. Increase in fuel prices because of deregulation

2. Natural sharp increase in fuel prices with the only more price increases to come in the future.

3. The depressed financial market

4. Increased cost of borrowing

5. Tightening credit market

I know people trying hard to get out of the power boat market with their boats up for sale for well over a year. I think the market that will been hit hardest is the 30 to 50 foot one. I hear of incredible deals on new boats as makers try to unload them.




.

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I'd have to add my two-penn'oth here, as someone who is just about to swap 1x 56hp Yanmar for 2x 260hp Volvo D4's:

1. I buy my fuel in Europe at €1.00 or so /litre - I know how much it's going to cost me and I value my leisure time appropriately.

2. You're right, but I have cut my cloth to suit.

3. The financial market does not affect me directly as i am a humble employee of a US company and the affordability of our new boat is directly the result of my disposable income.

4. I have been offered a loan of 0.5% APR less to finance my new boat than I was paying to finance the current one. (OK - so the more you borrow, the cheaper it gets, but...)

5. Even though I am borrowing approx. £100k more to buy the next boat than I borrowed to buy the present one, i was welcomed with open arms and a VERY quick decision.

Sorry Paul, but on this occasion our views differ...

I have to compare the "price" I put on my leisure time against a multitude of factors, one of which is boat ownership....I am lucky in that Pam recognises that even though an appartment in Spain will appreciate in value, whereas a boat in Spain will depreciate, we would pay ourselves how much per hour to enjoy our leisure time????

Life is very short, and I still prefer to pay to enjoy certain elements of life whilst I can.

Regards

Nick
 
I would guess that for boats to 60ft, those that have "best in class" economy figures are going to be more attractive than those at the bottom of the league. Much bigger than 60ft, and running costs probably won't be the primary consideration.

So:
IPS - /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Shaft Drives - /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Outdrives - /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Outboards - ?
Petrol Engines - /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Maybe in smaller boats.
Semi Displacement Hulls - /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Full Displacement Hulls - /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

We shall see!

dv.
 
"I will certainly be looking for a nice Broom "...............do my eyes deceave me Fred, have you suddenly warmed to net curtains and slippers :~)
 
Gludy, maybe everybody is selling their boat in Swansea but in the wider world, people are still buying boats. You only need to have visited LIBS to appreciate that. Everybody has known about the red diesel issue for yonks so any effect has already taken place. Of far greater importance are economic factors ie your points 3-5
 
That's because any Frenchman with enough dosh to buy and run a 40 footer sticks it in the Med. Calais or Cannes? Tricky choice, that
 
what you don't state Ari, is that on mainland europe tax paid diesel is about 1€-1.30€ a litre = 74p-98p TAX PAID it's still going to be miles behind what Gordon's going to stiff us for,
also the marinas on the French northern coastline are about half of what our south coast marinas charge and with better facilities. and that's fact not theory, I lived there for eighteen years.

the fact is we live the most taxed country in europe, posibily the world,

but, hey what do I know?
 
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what you don't state Ari, is that on mainland europe tax paid diesel is about 1€-1.30€ a litre = 74p-98p TAX PAID it's still going to be miles behind what Gordon's going to stiff us for,

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So what? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Still a lot more than we pay now.

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also the marinas on the French northern coastline are about half of what our south coast marinas charge and with better facilities. and that's fact not theory, I lived ther for eighteen years.


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And the south coast? Or are there no boats there?
 
I don't have knowledge of the French south coast marina costs,
I only state what I know is correct, not theorise about what I don't know, or guess.

you know that if road fuel price are adopted for pleasure boaters by the time it reaches the marina pumps it will be at least ten pence more than at tescos and at the moment road diesel has already reached £1.10 a litre,
it would be a very naive person indeed to think by November it will decrease or remain the same.

he's got to pay for northern rock somehow and every little helps as the ad jingle goes /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Nick_Pam
I do not disagree with anything you say in your post.

Its an individual decision and not everyone is effected by all the points but the market as a whole is.

I think that the UK power boating market on all boats is suffering today. I frankly do not beleive a lot of the hype put out by those selling boats at shows.

Boats above about 30 foot are going to gradually become scarcer in the UK.

I agree with Ari that many do not use their boats for even 100 hours a year and that many boats - the majority sit at their berths as floating caravans.

The rising costs are going to force many of those who boat out of the market and act as a block for new blood entering the market.
 
Here's my two penneth for what it's worth:
I have an 11 mtr displacement hulled boat driven by a single 140hp diesel engine giving between 8-10knts. I don't have a specific ltrs/hr consumption rate but she is very econmoical to run. Obviously I'm hoping these factors will be in my favour when my time comes to sell her.

Obviously she isn't as sexy as a big twin engined planing boat with 20 + knots available.

The major problem in the UK is the high (very) rate of taxation, both personal and business, the over regulation and over governed population. And who is to blame for all this? We are!! Yes, you and me and thousands like us but all we do is sit and moan and groan but do nothing. OK, we can voice our views every 4-5 years and hope the new intake will rescind a lot of the stupid rules and regulations but tell me of one new government has done anything so radical.

OK - winge over.
 
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Boats above about 30 foot are going to gradually become scarcer in the UK.

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Sorry Gludy, I think that is an exaggeration. At boat lengths of 30-35' fuel consumption on sterndrives is 2 - 2.5mpg. (Even my 31' boat with old tech engines manages 2.3 at a fast cruise loaded up). Even at £1.20/l my annual fuel bill will still be less than the cost of berthing or financing the boat, and for many on the South coast this will be true. Your 80 mile trip would cost us more like £200 ea/way than £2k. (That'll take us to Guernsey where we can fill cheaply too should we choose for a very cheap trip /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
 
Sorry have to disagree.

If you think that marine fuel will be only £1.20 this November you are in for a rude shock.
I think you should plan on fuel costs being more like £1.50 for the year Nov 08 to Nov 09. There will be extra tax above that for road fuel and the natural fuel inflation we already have plus the marine charge that always makes fuel more expensive than the local garage..

Secondly you took the minimum in my range of over 30 foot - you took 30 to 35 feet! As size increases the fuel costs rise a lot more and so my point is valid about increasing scarcity of over 30 foot.

Thirdly there are many boaters around the UK who would, even on your own costings not be able to justify an 80 mile return trip costing £400 but on my costings more like £500.

From Swansea that represents a return trip to Padstow. £500 for an economic 30 footer and about £2000 for a 60 footer. At those levels many will find its not worth it.

I know someone who bought a 35 foor petrol boat - did one trip , realised they could not justify the cost and spent the winter changing it over to diesel.

You should really be asking not how you see it effecting you but how you see it effecting the general market. Some will absorb the cost and carry on but many will not.

In Swansea I pay just over £3000 pa.a to berth a 60 footer. I would blow that much on a round trip to Lands End and back. At 60 foot I was one of the few largest boats in the Marina - just 2 or 3 at that length. I know many people with 30 to 45 footers and many have already acted. Some have tried to go to sail some are leaving the boating scene. It only takes a portion of the market to go for the effect to be great.

I think its great if you find ways top fill up cheaply eg Channel islands but for many boats it will not be worth the gain after allowing for the trip.

I really wish things were different but I agree with the other post that states its all our fault. It is. We have allowed governments to get away with it.

Our Prime Minister has had only one goal in life since he was a kid - to be PM. He has made it and now we are all part of one big Brown social experiment. He has built his reputation on huge borrowing and high taxes with cheap credit that has allowed the population to go mad on borrowing - but now its time to come down to the real world.

In five or six years time out marinas will have far fewer mobo's ... its that simple and the governement will simply say that was the green way to do things.

Rant over




/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Come on Broom owners,prices are supposed to be in freefall.

Popping up to Norfolk at the w/e to look a nice B. European ,would really like the 9-70.
Want something capable of getting under upriver bridges,but nice and stable for off the coast and with some proper engines.
My problem is that Brooms hold their price so well,double the money of my old Princess for the same aged/size Broom. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
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I agree with Ari that many do not use their boats for even 100 hours a year and that many boats - the majority sit at their berths as floating caravans.

The rising costs are going to force many of those who boat out of the market and act as a block for new blood entering the market.

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Gludy, thank you, therre it is in a nutshell.

The vast majority simply don't do the hours for it to be a big issue. Just check the used boat hours in any boating mag. On a four year old boat, 200 hours (50 a year) is typical.

That's why in all honesty it won't affect most people. Simple as that.

I'm not saying it's fair, or good, or that it won't affect anyone. But the question posed was, will it affect boat depriciation? Answer, no. Because it simply won't affect the vast majority of users.
 
Oh god here we go again, who started this thread?

Over generalisation yet again!

My boat is 37Ft, my annual fuel bill with 3 coastal trips is £300.

If it doubles----hells bells thats another £300!

Better top myself now... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Gludy's price predictions are probably realistic. It will not stop at that level though, perhaps in five years time it might be £2.50 a litre. Not many could afford that kind of price. I switched over from a series of SD boats to a full displacement boat. I wish I had done it years ago. The idea was, as retirement is in sight, I wanted a good boat, I could afford to run. Gludy's figures above don't mention displacement boats. I think on these forums a lot of people forget they are an alternative or that they even exist. My 35ft boat would do the 160 mile round trip at 1.50 a litre for less than £100.

I see more people switching over, or should it be back to, displacement boats. I think that SD boats will be the worst sector hit as the must go fast <u>at all costs</u> brigade, (I was once a member, before I discovered sanity) move to more economical planing boats and those more concerned about cash will go to displacement speeds.

We are all going to have to use less fuel at some point in the future. Not just in our boats but in our cars and home as well. We will change our cars and alter our homes, likewise with our boats. I think the future is a glut of cheap fuel hungry boats alongside a heap of old jags and range rovers. The sensible people will be thinking of changing now before that happens.
 
One last fact.

We've all known about red diesel coming in for about, what, a year?

Now look at mags like MBY. See any huge increase in the numbers of boats for sale?

Me neither.

There's your answer.
 
we shall have to wait and see what the fuel price will be come Nov as no one knows, not even you Gludy /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif much of the recent oil price increases has been driven by fear and speculation not shortage.

I was using my boat as an example, the figures apply to many mobs to at least 35'. I also doubt that many mobos make more than a handful of long trips each year.

I don't know what will happen to mobo prices. no one does, however I think you wear a very very pessimistic hat.

cheers
 
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much of the recent oil price increases has been driven by fear and speculation not shortage.

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One factor not included is China, a bit on the radio last week, China is planning to double the number of cars in the world. They have a vast internal market, and with new cars planned to sell at £1,200 world wide. So all this reduction in useage, may indeed lead to a growing shortage, with China and India increasing there use.

What this will do to the global carbon footprint ??

So fear and speculation may be a growing problem.


Brian
 
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