Demand for moorings plummeting?
- Thread starter skyflyer
- Start date
Seajet
...
Re: Nope !
Our club tolerates genuine hard luck cases* but keeps strictly to the RYA guidelines - if a boat, dinghy or cruiser, is left unattended for a year or two they are noticed as ' a problem boat ' - so after contacting anyone possible, at the alotted time the dinghies go to auction, if no takers there's a bonfire.
GRP cruisers are a bit more tricky as you know, but so far the mention of big bills outstanding, possibly forgotten if the owner or their estate trundle the thing away seems to work.
* One very sad tale I'm still infuriated about - as I run the Anderson 22 Owners Association, a chap had been in regular contact with me, he wanted an A22, nothing else - but he had only a few years left, terminal cancer, and didn't want to pay full price - as then - in case he left his widow lumbered.
By chance a boat came up, her owner - who I knew - had died prematurely, that club just wanted rid of the boat to free up space ashore.
The chap I'd been in contact with came all the way from the East Coast, took one look and said " I'll have her, let me go and get the £500 outstanding fees " - while he was away for half an hour that club sold it to another guy who'd turned up.
I was an continue to be disgusted, but of course the keen fan didn't get to spend his last times sailing, and he isn't around now to argue.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, we often think ' that boat could do someone a good turn ' - well sometimes it's true, a forumite here gave his Leisure 17 to a very worthwhile youngsters' charity.
Our club tolerates genuine hard luck cases* but keeps strictly to the RYA guidelines - if a boat, dinghy or cruiser, is left unattended for a year or two they are noticed as ' a problem boat ' - so after contacting anyone possible, at the alotted time the dinghies go to auction, if no takers there's a bonfire.
GRP cruisers are a bit more tricky as you know, but so far the mention of big bills outstanding, possibly forgotten if the owner or their estate trundle the thing away seems to work.
* One very sad tale I'm still infuriated about - as I run the Anderson 22 Owners Association, a chap had been in regular contact with me, he wanted an A22, nothing else - but he had only a few years left, terminal cancer, and didn't want to pay full price - as then - in case he left his widow lumbered.
By chance a boat came up, her owner - who I knew - had died prematurely, that club just wanted rid of the boat to free up space ashore.
The chap I'd been in contact with came all the way from the East Coast, took one look and said " I'll have her, let me go and get the £500 outstanding fees " - while he was away for half an hour that club sold it to another guy who'd turned up.
I was an continue to be disgusted, but of course the keen fan didn't get to spend his last times sailing, and he isn't around now to argue.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, we often think ' that boat could do someone a good turn ' - well sometimes it's true, a forumite here gave his Leisure 17 to a very worthwhile youngsters' charity.
Capt. Clueless
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
A few clubs advertise their unwanted boats on Facebook, and also some get given away free.....
A few clubs advertise their unwanted boats on Facebook, and also some get given away free.....
Babylon
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
That's exactly right.
My local radio-control model flying club - along with many others all round the country - is gradually diminishing in members, with the clear majority in their 60s and 70s. I'm in my mid-50s and the second youngest! We don't do drones (more correctly termed multi-rotors) and, as it takes perseverance and patience to learn to fly fixed-wing or helicopters properly, the young aren't interested (*). Whereas up to a generation ago, you had to build your own planes from kits (or plans if you were more experienced) and understand miniature IC engines, today you can just buy complete models fitted with electric motors (made in factories in China etc) and all the servos etc pre-installed, so the deep skills are also diminishing.
(Note (*) = The young by and large aren't interested, their imaginations are entirely captured elsewhere, but there is also a deep reluctance amongst club officials to even contemplate engaging with the local school of 2,500 kids, or the local Air Cadets - which is completely understandable given the considerable hurdles of child-protection, health & safety, etc.)
That's not to say some clubs aren't doing very well ,and people still building and flying extraordinary models, and in some specialist areas we still produce world-class competition flyers (e.g. discus-launched thermal soaring), plus there's a small but still thriving indoor free-flight rubber-powered scale scene, but it certainly ain't what it used to be.
There is also a strong parallel between the RYA and the BMFA (British Model Flying Association), in terms of the considerable amount of lobbying that takes place behind the scenes to ensure civil servants and other groups don't - in their ignorance or due to competing interests - enact restrictions which would kill off the activity altogether.
So, just enjoy your thing and don't worry - there'll still be yachting in 25 years time, it'll just be slightly different.
That's exactly right.
My local radio-control model flying club - along with many others all round the country - is gradually diminishing in members, with the clear majority in their 60s and 70s. I'm in my mid-50s and the second youngest! We don't do drones (more correctly termed multi-rotors) and, as it takes perseverance and patience to learn to fly fixed-wing or helicopters properly, the young aren't interested (*). Whereas up to a generation ago, you had to build your own planes from kits (or plans if you were more experienced) and understand miniature IC engines, today you can just buy complete models fitted with electric motors (made in factories in China etc) and all the servos etc pre-installed, so the deep skills are also diminishing.
(Note (*) = The young by and large aren't interested, their imaginations are entirely captured elsewhere, but there is also a deep reluctance amongst club officials to even contemplate engaging with the local school of 2,500 kids, or the local Air Cadets - which is completely understandable given the considerable hurdles of child-protection, health & safety, etc.)
That's not to say some clubs aren't doing very well ,and people still building and flying extraordinary models, and in some specialist areas we still produce world-class competition flyers (e.g. discus-launched thermal soaring), plus there's a small but still thriving indoor free-flight rubber-powered scale scene, but it certainly ain't what it used to be.
There is also a strong parallel between the RYA and the BMFA (British Model Flying Association), in terms of the considerable amount of lobbying that takes place behind the scenes to ensure civil servants and other groups don't - in their ignorance or due to competing interests - enact restrictions which would kill off the activity altogether.
So, just enjoy your thing and don't worry - there'll still be yachting in 25 years time, it'll just be slightly different.
Last edited:
TSB240
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Bit of Fred drift but Andy (Seajet) did you see how much Aggro went for..... Unique forum super yacht with a fin keel £310.00 . Bargain of the year.....
Bit of Fred drift but Andy (Seajet) did you see how much Aggro went for..... Unique forum super yacht with a fin keel £310.00 . Bargain of the year.....
Seajet
...
Re: Nope !
Yes, a shame you didn't reply to my PM with offers of the full fit out plans and tons of info.
Aggro was one of two special fixed fin keel Anderson 22's which did very well at club racing on the Clyde; but as I mentioned a long time ago
A, the previous owner couldn't be bothered sorting her out even for sales photo's, and she was / is in pretty poor shape - though nothing a keen DIY'er can't fix
B, The A22's great virtues are the lift keel and seaworthiness; as I also mentioned a long time ago, around here you couldn't give away a fin keeler under 30+ feet due to the mooring / berthing charges.
I offered your imaginary friend more help than the buyers of most boats could dream of, but you turn it into a p take; there is a word for you, but I can't say it here.
Yes, a shame you didn't reply to my PM with offers of the full fit out plans and tons of info.
Aggro was one of two special fixed fin keel Anderson 22's which did very well at club racing on the Clyde; but as I mentioned a long time ago
A, the previous owner couldn't be bothered sorting her out even for sales photo's, and she was / is in pretty poor shape - though nothing a keen DIY'er can't fix
B, The A22's great virtues are the lift keel and seaworthiness; as I also mentioned a long time ago, around here you couldn't give away a fin keeler under 30+ feet due to the mooring / berthing charges.
I offered your imaginary friend more help than the buyers of most boats could dream of, but you turn it into a p take; there is a word for you, but I can't say it here.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Inexpensive mooring rates could be our greatest problem.
Some motorboats on our moorings, have literally not moved for years and are never likely to.
No incentive to sell due to cheap mooring rates and old neglected boats being practically worthless.
The conumdrum.
Some skippers of these boats probably devoted years of their time keeping the club afloat and active in the past.
But
These same boats are preventing new club members from mooring at the club and enjoying the advantages that go with it, not least enjoying spending money in the handy clubhouse at every opportunity. ?
Inexpensive mooring rates could be our greatest problem.
Some motorboats on our moorings, have literally not moved for years and are never likely to.
No incentive to sell due to cheap mooring rates and old neglected boats being practically worthless.
The conumdrum.
Some skippers of these boats probably devoted years of their time keeping the club afloat and active in the past.
But
These same boats are preventing new club members from mooring at the club and enjoying the advantages that go with it, not least enjoying spending money in the handy clubhouse at every opportunity. ?
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Humm can these boats be moved onto the Mud nearby along the Wall so in effect have High Tide moorings so not available to use except when really wanted by the owners. ?
OR ask them to move their boats over to the Pelican Yard opposite on a cheaper Membership Rate ?
Humm can these boats be moved onto the Mud nearby along the Wall so in effect have High Tide moorings so not available to use except when really wanted by the owners. ?
OR ask them to move their boats over to the Pelican Yard opposite on a cheaper Membership Rate ?
Bobc
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Yes, that can be a restricting factor, and I'm not really sure what the answer is to that other than telling the person that as they are not active enough as a club member, they have their membership type changed to something like "social member" which no longer allows them to have a mooring. That kind of move would cetainly free-up moorings but would cause a lot of bad feeling.
Yes, that can be a restricting factor, and I'm not really sure what the answer is to that other than telling the person that as they are not active enough as a club member, they have their membership type changed to something like "social member" which no longer allows them to have a mooring. That kind of move would cetainly free-up moorings but would cause a lot of bad feeling.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
They had the problem of people putting trophy boats on moorings in the River Yealm years ago, hence:
"4.7 If a vessel or mooring does not have reasonable use during the season the mooring licence may not be renewed (policy 6.1)."
Without a Harbourmaster not easy to enforce though.
They had the problem of people putting trophy boats on moorings in the River Yealm years ago, hence:
"4.7 If a vessel or mooring does not have reasonable use during the season the mooring licence may not be renewed (policy 6.1)."
Without a Harbourmaster not easy to enforce though.
Capt Popeye
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Humm maybe have three membership grades
Social = NO moorings
Active = moorings
Inactive = mud or no moorings available
With the RCC suggest a partner membership with that Pelican Yard over the river = inacites
Humm maybe have three membership grades
Social = NO moorings
Active = moorings
Inactive = mud or no moorings available
With the RCC suggest a partner membership with that Pelican Yard over the river = inacites
Swanrad2
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
If it is the young deserting sailing then consider my children's delight (gratification) when they get new cammo for their gun on an X-Box game or the continuous vacuous positive feedback of social media. Why put in the kind of graft required to own and sail a boat when unlocking an achievement online is sooo much easier and the gratification instant? A marina is a little closer I suppose, becasue you can do the same stuff seconds after arriving. I do try, but it is hard to compete!
Back to the 'boomers' argument for a second, I see much truth but little relevence in what was written by 8. The biggest theft or land grab that this generation is benefiting from, namely insanely generous pensions when considering longevity, is hardly their fault. It will however, due to their stubborn unwillingness to die at 70 like they were supposed to, kill the state pension system for the rest of us as well as quite possibly the NHS and any number of companies with massive deficits. The same trend has kept old fellas paddling out to their moorings for far longer than they had any right to expect - kind of swings and roundabouts in terms of mooring demands.
I think (completely without evidence) if anything is contributing towards a lack of popularity in sailing and the row out to the swinging moorings it is a lack of willingness of many to take risk. Better to stay at home and watch Simply Come Crocheting than to actually go out and take a risk (however small it may be) on that nasty wet stuff. Of course it is equally as likely to be demographic changes or static earnings for those not lucky wnough to be benefiting from fuel allowances and triple locks. Final possibility, sailing is quite a blokey thing and lads today are far less blokey than they used to be (sorry to offend the many excellent female sailors I have met, I'm talking across the population) - raised more by their Mothers maybe? Pondering on a dull afternoon.
If it is the young deserting sailing then consider my children's delight (gratification) when they get new cammo for their gun on an X-Box game or the continuous vacuous positive feedback of social media. Why put in the kind of graft required to own and sail a boat when unlocking an achievement online is sooo much easier and the gratification instant? A marina is a little closer I suppose, becasue you can do the same stuff seconds after arriving. I do try, but it is hard to compete!
Back to the 'boomers' argument for a second, I see much truth but little relevence in what was written by 8. The biggest theft or land grab that this generation is benefiting from, namely insanely generous pensions when considering longevity, is hardly their fault. It will however, due to their stubborn unwillingness to die at 70 like they were supposed to, kill the state pension system for the rest of us as well as quite possibly the NHS and any number of companies with massive deficits. The same trend has kept old fellas paddling out to their moorings for far longer than they had any right to expect - kind of swings and roundabouts in terms of mooring demands.
I think (completely without evidence) if anything is contributing towards a lack of popularity in sailing and the row out to the swinging moorings it is a lack of willingness of many to take risk. Better to stay at home and watch Simply Come Crocheting than to actually go out and take a risk (however small it may be) on that nasty wet stuff. Of course it is equally as likely to be demographic changes or static earnings for those not lucky wnough to be benefiting from fuel allowances and triple locks. Final possibility, sailing is quite a blokey thing and lads today are far less blokey than they used to be (sorry to offend the many excellent female sailors I have met, I'm talking across the population) - raised more by their Mothers maybe? Pondering on a dull afternoon.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Honestly they are out there doing it in big numbers, taking more risks than I would and skippering as well from early twenties onwards but they are doing in the sun and spreading costs between themselves by crowding into a charter boat. So often we are by far the oldest sailors (early 50s) by a generation compared to the others who have come ashore to the bar or restaurant.
Honestly they are out there doing it in big numbers, taking more risks than I would and skippering as well from early twenties onwards but they are doing in the sun and spreading costs between themselves by crowding into a charter boat. So often we are by far the oldest sailors (early 50s) by a generation compared to the others who have come ashore to the bar or restaurant.
Seajet
...
Re: Nope !
Swanrad 2,
I can agree with the ' blokey ' side you mention, although I know a few female cruiser owners / sailors around my age ( 56 ) who would count as adventurous as any male chum.
Re risk taking, I don't think that's very relevant; I and friends of my age sometimes cringe when we see youngsters going out to the moorings wearing heavy rucksacks but no lifejackets in tenders, even in the dark - a few years ago I was the then 4th experienced older middle / owner age ranged owner to go over board from our club moorings, but we all survived largely as we all had lifejackets on.
I don't think it's being risk averse which puts off younger owners - I know a crew of a young mum and dad with four young children on a 22' boat, they do all wear lifejackets but they have great ' Swallows and Amazons ' style fun, and for our Junior Section ' camp and sail in company with cruisers ' it's super-soaker water pistols at the ready.
I think younger owners are a lot more frightened of having to get boats ashore in winter and having to weild a paintbrush than drowning.
Swanrad 2,
I can agree with the ' blokey ' side you mention, although I know a few female cruiser owners / sailors around my age ( 56 ) who would count as adventurous as any male chum.
Re risk taking, I don't think that's very relevant; I and friends of my age sometimes cringe when we see youngsters going out to the moorings wearing heavy rucksacks but no lifejackets in tenders, even in the dark - a few years ago I was the then 4th experienced older middle / owner age ranged owner to go over board from our club moorings, but we all survived largely as we all had lifejackets on.
I don't think it's being risk averse which puts off younger owners - I know a crew of a young mum and dad with four young children on a 22' boat, they do all wear lifejackets but they have great ' Swallows and Amazons ' style fun, and for our Junior Section ' camp and sail in company with cruisers ' it's super-soaker water pistols at the ready.
I think younger owners are a lot more frightened of having to get boats ashore in winter and having to weild a paintbrush than drowning.
steveej
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Where in the Med are you seeing this. Just curious because I have never seen it.
Where in the Med are you seeing this. Just curious because I have never seen it.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Both in the Ionian, especially the northern mainland bits like Sivota, Ithaca and in Croatia. The hotspots for youngest crews have been around Hvar and much further north around Tisno. Mostly big crowds of Russian, UK and Aussie boats often in flotillas on slightly smaller, slightly older charter boats.
Last year in the Sporades though, the young seemed more likely to be on land not on boats
Both in the Ionian, especially the northern mainland bits like Sivota, Ithaca and in Croatia. The hotspots for youngest crews have been around Hvar and much further north around Tisno. Mostly big crowds of Russian, UK and Aussie boats often in flotillas on slightly smaller, slightly older charter boats.
Last year in the Sporades though, the young seemed more likely to be on land not on boats
Swanrad2
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
I do love a good ponder.
The people who are out there without lifejackets are a self-selected group, by definition a little bit 'yee-ha'. The ones never allowed to climb trees or build tree houses in case the little precious angel hurts himself would be the rest. It is them I refer to and I believe this to be a growing problem, although this does make me sound a little older than I am...kids today! Lads of nine with hair gell worrying about getting their clothes dirty - they are out there and growing in number.
For the sake of clarity and in case she reads this, one of the best sailors I know is female and a hell of a lot braver than me.
I do love a good ponder.
The people who are out there without lifejackets are a self-selected group, by definition a little bit 'yee-ha'. The ones never allowed to climb trees or build tree houses in case the little precious angel hurts himself would be the rest. It is them I refer to and I believe this to be a growing problem, although this does make me sound a little older than I am...kids today! Lads of nine with hair gell worrying about getting their clothes dirty - they are out there and growing in number.
For the sake of clarity and in case she reads this, one of the best sailors I know is female and a hell of a lot braver than me.
Frogmogman
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
My 23 year old daughter (RYA Coastal Skipper) has chartered 40 footers in the Med for a week in the last two Septembers with 7 of her old school friends. 2017 was from Crete, the year before in Croatia. With each one paying their share, it works out as a pretty inexpensive holiday for them, and they have a great time. It seems set be an annual event.
My 23 year old daughter (RYA Coastal Skipper) has chartered 40 footers in the Med for a week in the last two Septembers with 7 of her old school friends. 2017 was from Crete, the year before in Croatia. With each one paying their share, it works out as a pretty inexpensive holiday for them, and they have a great time. It seems set be an annual event.
RupertW
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
It makes a lot of sense and as she gets more money and her party crowd naturally shrinks she may follow the pattern I've seen. I've met people who used to have 10 on a boat then went down to 3 couples then 2 couples with young kids by the time I met them. And at that point in their lives they had no inclination to ever sail on a sub-40 foot boat or take on the hassle of the completely unfamiliar maintenance tasks, let alone do that in U.K. weather.
It makes a lot of sense and as she gets more money and her party crowd naturally shrinks she may follow the pattern I've seen. I've met people who used to have 10 on a boat then went down to 3 couples then 2 couples with young kids by the time I met them. And at that point in their lives they had no inclination to ever sail on a sub-40 foot boat or take on the hassle of the completely unfamiliar maintenance tasks, let alone do that in U.K. weather.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Re: Nope !
Does anybody ever bother to summon up the courage to select a victim(s) to come out for day on their boat.
The world probably walks past your/my club gates and suspects all sort of worrying clubby things are being committed by a bunch of super fit overwaged braying Boris Johnson clones within its portals.
Did suggest an open day for the public at our club , the objections all came from one particular age group.
Leave you to guess which one .
Does anybody ever bother to summon up the courage to select a victim(s) to come out for day on their boat.
The world probably walks past your/my club gates and suspects all sort of worrying clubby things are being committed by a bunch of super fit
overwaged braying Boris Johnson clones within its portals. Did suggest an open day for the public at our club , the objections all came from one particular age group.
Leave you to guess which one .
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