JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
What makes you think a rigger is qualified to assess the condition of this stay? What training do riggers get which allows them to do this? How is their knowledge checked and validated?
Demaged forestay?
- Thread starter carrousel29
- Start date
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Which do you trust more ?
A forums post by ???
or
A rigger who's job it is to make up and fit mast stays ?
I agree that many guys in Chandlers who can make up a Stay for you are nothing more than a counter boy who can operate a press. But I would assume that we are talking about a proper rigger in a yard ...
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
Good point,so where does that leave us? Rigger cant be trusted to know what he is talking about and neither can a load of blokes on the internet. Me? I know nothing but if I saw my forestay doing that Id get it changed. Gut feeling rules OK!
carrousel29
New Member
I have no rigger here to come and see,i am thinkig tu cut of the bad part of wire and instal sta lok swegless terminal its made longer then usually...Is swegles sta lok reliable for forestay with roll system.I have read that is for forestay with roll more reliably swage terminal..
Sta-Lok Long Eye - Quick and Easy To Install - Sta Lok
Sta-Lok Long Eye - Quick and Easy To Install - Sta Lok
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
It's a problem, and I don't know the answer. However, unless a riggers is actually qualified in assessing rigging I wouldn't assume that s/he was able to do so. It would be like asking a tyre fitter to assess suspension damage.
If there were people qualified and able to assess rigging we wouldn't - many of us - have to go through the charade of replacing it every ten years on spec.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
It's not a bad solution. The question is "Can you make a Sta-Lok join which you are confident is stronger than that swage?" I had one Sta-Lok to do (everything else was Norseman) and I found it a complete pain. It will be some time before I fully trust my forestay as a result.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
I had a mast fail as a youngster in a 'sporty' dinghy where I was getting my bum wet, not a pleasant experience. On my last boat I was removing my furling genoa at the end of the season when there was a large crack and the forestay gave way. Thankfully, I had the genoa halyard to hand and was able to get a temporary fix on very quickly, my bum was not wet that day but pretty close to it.
A mast failure is catastrophic and can cause serious injury. Why not do some preventative maintenance. You might save yourself a long tow from a lifeboat.
A mast failure is catastrophic and can cause serious injury. Why not do some preventative maintenance. You might save yourself a long tow from a lifeboat.
doug748
Well-Known Member
You don't need a rigger in my view, that damaged wire is typical of the failure mode in roller furling systems. If may well deform back and then the strain may be repeated until it becomes stranded and breaks. Each deformation reduces your safety margin as it weakens further.
If you have sufficient length, after cutting out the damage, then a Sta-Loc type solution would be fine. I fitted one myself this winter and found the company very helpful.
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Refueler
Well-Known Member
Snapdragon 23 in Force 7+ ..... forestay pulled out of deck ..... genny unfurled and horizontal from mast head ...... while I scrambled forward to use genny halyard to stop mast failing (Profurl doesn't use genny halyard) ... Harry (ex SBS) used furling line to haul that genny and furler back so we could secure ... still today he has marked hands from it.
Laminar Flow
Well-Known Member
I would replace the stay. The costs for that are not really that great in the overall picture.
Also, birdnesting is generally caused by the furler (un)twisting the stay; this often happens when the halyard wraps itself around the top of the stay. This can be (somewhat) alleviated by having the lay of the wire such that it follows the direction of the most general force, meaning you may have to up-end the stay.
Lastly, the very fact that the nesting occurred at the swageing means that each and every strand was not only bent, but also torqued at that one single hard point. This, especially with SS, is not a good thing. The fact that it happened once, means it is likely to happen again, if not sorted.
I am not overly neurotic about things in general, but I have also designed, built and modified a number of rigs. Based on personal experience, my faith in the competency of professional riggers is at best "restrained".
Also, birdnesting is generally caused by the furler (un)twisting the stay; this often happens when the halyard wraps itself around the top of the stay. This can be (somewhat) alleviated by having the lay of the wire such that it follows the direction of the most general force, meaning you may have to up-end the stay.
Lastly, the very fact that the nesting occurred at the swageing means that each and every strand was not only bent, but also torqued at that one single hard point. This, especially with SS, is not a good thing. The fact that it happened once, means it is likely to happen again, if not sorted.
I am not overly neurotic about things in general, but I have also designed, built and modified a number of rigs. Based on personal experience, my faith in the competency of professional riggers is at best "restrained".
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Flipping the stay will still have strands same lay rotation ... but you would put the section that 'birdcaged' at the bottom instead of top ..... inside the furler drum ...
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
I was thinking that, too.
Perhaps the OP could arrange a swap with an Australian sailor.
pandos
Well-Known Member
That is exactly what I thought...I had similar on a brand new stay 15 years ago and the rigger at that time sold me a new stay...
Just last week I was doing a swageless fitting on the bottom of my new forestay and thought back to my damaged stay and thought why did i not simply twist it back into place...
I still have that stay... I wonder would any actual expert like to disassemble it and report on the actual damage?
This stuff is not delicate...
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Caraway
Well-Known Member
The OP keeps posting more pics in the hope people will say "Yeah. that's fine."
The fact he asked about it means he is concerned. Just replace it.
The fact he asked about it means he is concerned. Just replace it.
Laminar Flow
Well-Known Member
Dyform 1x19 is available in left and right handed lay. Dyform is also smoother and less likely for the furler to stick.
Another option, depending on your sun strip, is to roll up your jib the other way.
In any case, make sure your halyard is not wrapping around the stay, this can cause the stay to fail. Birdnesting of the stay is the first sign.
Another option, depending on your sun strip, is to roll up your jib the other way.
In any case, make sure your halyard is not wrapping around the stay, this can cause the stay to fail. Birdnesting of the stay is the first sign.
carrousel29
New Member
just to have better view,in fact, as I'm in a dilemma ... I'd rather people scare me and do it ..now is just question,hole new forestay or just sta lok swegless terminal.
Boathook
Well-Known Member
How old is the forestay? More than a couple of years I would replace. Plus as others have mentioned, make sure the haliard isn't wrapping round and doing it again.
carrousel29
New Member
is dufour 29,forestay is 6 month old 7mm,changed because the same damage after wraping... instead 6mm wire now is 7mm..and yes,now i hawe made that no chanse to happen again.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
What furler do you have ?
Reason I ask is that the Plastimo relies on either the cranked shackle or addition of a 'donut' .... both of which did not work on my boat.
The final solution is g'teed to prevent halyard wrap .... attached a sketch of the idea and a photo of in the Swedish Islands .. look closely at the mast head and you can make out the anti-wrap line.
Attachments
carrousel29
New Member
lei system,continues line furling,french made "80...