Delta Anchor - buy original Lewmar or knock-off

Irish Rover

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The main anchor on my boat is a Delta type which is very badly rusted and the shank looks decidedly weak where the shackle attaches. Time for a replacement. A new 20Kg Lewmar galvanised Delta is €460 here in Türkiye. I can buy a similar knock-off Delta type for a quarter of that amount. Any GOOD reason not to buy the cheaper one. By the way I'm pretty sure the current one is not original. It already looked well worn when I bought the boat in 2017 and has seen plenty of use since then.
 

vyv_cox

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Heat treatment costs money but is needed to provide strength, particularly in the shank. Modern anchors with shanks cut from plate need strength to reduce the risk of bending. You can bet that an anchor a quarter of the price will be fabricated from soft construction plate, welded by a man who has never heard of coding, never mind qualified for it.

Cheap anchors may survive mild conditions but come the storm can be relied upon to fail.
 

noelex

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Some of the Delta copies are pretty dismal. This model called a "Shark" is one that I would be particularly wary of. Below is a photo of one slowly dragging with minimal engagement of the seabed. 6m @4:1. You can see the long drag mark and the puffs of sand indicating the anchor is still (very slowly) moving.

img_1973162_3_440341abc86387e78072a07412871b5c.jpg


If contemplating a new anchor it may be time for a rethink. The Kobra is very slightly better for no more expense, or much better again is a range of more modern, non plow anchors with significantly better performance.
 
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Irish Rover

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Some of the Delta copies are pretty dismal. This model called a "Shark" is one that I would be particularly wary of. Below is a photo of one slowly dragging with minimal engagement of the seabed. 6m @4:1. You can see the long drag mark and the puffs of sand indicating the anchor is still (slowly) moving.

img_1973162_3_440341abc86387e78072a07412871b5c.jpg


If contemplating a new anchor it may be time for a rethink. The Kobra is very slightly better for no more expense, or much better again is a range of more modern, non plow anchors with significantly better performance.
I'm probably going to buy the 20Kg Delta but, go on anyway, what would you recommend for a 10.3 x 4.5M catamaran?
 

Gsailor

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The main anchor on my boat is a Delta type which is very badly rusted and the shank looks decidedly weak where the shackle attaches. Time for a replacement. A new 20Kg Lewmar galvanised Delta is €460 here in Türkiye. I can buy a similar knock-off Delta type for a quarter of that amount. Any GOOD reason not to buy the cheaper one. By the way I'm pretty sure the current one is not original. It already looked well worn when I bought the boat in 2017 and has seen plenty of use since then.
Can you have your one repaired? Extra metal welded on? You will obviously have to paint it a lot if used a lot - depends upon budget and priorities that I know nothing of.

I always carried 3 anchors- one over sized, two of correct size- all different designs.
 

noelex

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I'm probably going to buy the 20Kg Delta but, go on anyway, what would you recommend for a 10.3 x 4.5M catamaran?
The best general purpose anchors in my view are the Mantus M1, Rocna, and steel Spade. There are several new anchors that I have not had chance to properly evaluate, but have looked promising underwater. These include the Vulcan and Mantus M2. The Ultra is also good (but for silly money). The Rocna Mk2 looks to be a very sensible development on paper (but I not seen this anchor at all).

Lots of choices. The Delta performs fine in an ideal medium soft substrate, but if you encounter more challenging sea beds such as thick weed or hard sand the above anchors will perform significantly better.

Given you need a new anchor, it is worth contemplating selecting a design that will provide the best performance in a wide range of substrates, but this will be more expensive especially in Turkey. Also research the prices in Greece, as there can be substantial price differences for imported items between these two nearby countries, especially for specially items such as anchors.

In terms of size, for a cruising boat that anchors frequently I would suggest the largest size you can comfortably manage is the best starting point. Your experience with your previous anchor weight should provide good guidance. Keep the size comfortably manageable, but there are significant advantages, especially in terms of anchoring in more difficult substrates and at shorter scopes, that make fitting a larger anchor desirable, but only if this is practical.
 

Neeves

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Few people here have experience of multihulls - most background is based on monohulls.

Some recomendations, from some who should know better, incude the Mantus M1 which is shallow setting and has the same hold as similarly weighed Delta. These same people on their own yacht uses an oversized Mantus M1, if you compare the recommended sized anchor from other suppliers. They also recommend an oversized anchor for you, against advice from others:

Oversize anchors – necessary?

There are whole range of modern anchors with twice the hold of older style anchors - which includes the older style - Delta. Modern anchors would include Rocna, Supreme, Knox, Excel, Vulcan, Viking, Spade and Epsilon. You will find all of these more expensive than a Delta - but then of the same weight they each have twice the hold. Over the life, of use, of an anchor - price is usually not a consideration.

We had a 11.5m x 6.67m cat of 7t fully loaded - we used a 15kg steel anchor, from the long list I provide, but then 'upgraded' to aluminium versions (each weighing 8kg). We also used lightweight chain of 6mm size.

I'd suggest when you are nearer making a decision you have a look at dimensions (as some anchors might not fit) we could not use a 'roll bar' anchor - they would not fit our bow roller: Vulcan, Epsilon, Excel, Spade do not have roll bars.

Having spruiked modern anchors many people have found a genuine Delta acceptable - I confess we have never really liked it. Going back to the thread title - A bit like buying a copy Delta - you don't know what you are getting with the genuine version. Your cat costs 'big' money..... why would you risk your investment (and your 'crew') in a copy anchor

A cheap and cheerful choice is Kobra, good hold (up there with the other modern anchors), questionable shank strength.

Longer term you should be looking at a spare, or second anchor, then Fortress comes into the mix, but buying an anchor of a different style to your primary - is an idea worth considering.

Be careful of eastern Med sourced Bugels - they might not have copied the original with any accuracy, might not have used appropriately strong (tensile strength) steel and might have inadequately thick galvanising.

Mull over the posts and when you have some ideas - refresh the thread, or start a new one, and you might get more focussed replies.

Jonathan
 
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Irish Rover

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Thanks for all the replies. I definitely want to get a new anchor but truthfully I'm confused by the science. My old Delta has served me well. Most of my anchoring is in soft sand and, when Med mooring, whatever the port throws at me - usually a combination of mud and sand. I've been anchored in some rough conditions without dragging - I was in Ermoupoli, Syros, a couple of times this year and the ferry surge there is serious, but it held strong. I avoid anchoring in weed which is not that difficult to do here in the Aegean.
Of the anchors mentioned by @noelex and @Neeves I can find only the Mantus M1 & M2, the Rocna and, of course, the Delta available here in Türkiye. As may be evident from the photo below my anchor roller is located underneath the bow with limited clearance so I have some concerns about the Rocna and M1 roll bars causing issues. So, pending further research, that brings me back to the Delta or a Mantus M2 and there's not a big price difference between the two. Thoughts?
20231101_123136.jpg
 

Neeves

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You have the same problem we had - roll bars don't fit on the bow roller. It was not such a problem for us - we had a larger choice of anchors. That's a 15kg steel anchor, replaced later by the same sized anchor but 8kg - in aluminium. 11.5m x 6.67m x 7t

IMG_5474.jpeg

Think Latterally.

The size of anchor (around 12kg if a modern anchor) you need for your cat will fit within the 'normal' luggage allowance, of 20kg or thereabouts, on a regular plane - though the then available space (weight) for any personal possessions is ..... parsimonious (but you have a cabin luggage allowance). We brought a Kobra and a 13kg Knox (both for testing) from the UK to Oz (different occasions) - but there were 2 of us and we planned in advance. Are you planning on a trip to Europe or have guests visiting?

In Greece (I appreciate you are in Turkey) there are CMP distributors, who make both the Rocna and Vulcan. There must be other retail outlets of other brands (though I think for the Excel you are restricted to the UK, Jimmy Green). I'm surprised that Epsilon is not freely available (especially if you can buy a genuine Delta), Lewmar are evident in most sailing markets. Fortunately the Mantus M1 has a monster roll bar - so I think its technical inadequacies are of no concern - it will not fit. :) but that also means Rocna, Supreme, Viking, Knox are also unlikely to fit (though their roll bars are smaller - so check).

I'd contact Spade direct (and any of the other models) - its simply an email and if the answer is uneconomic you have hardly wasted much time, effort nor money :)

Kobra, of the questionable shank, is retailed by Plastimo who have good European coverage - and its shank has not been mentioned (other than by me, I saw a bent one at Preston Marina) by owners on this forum - maybe someone will comment. Its a good anchor, in terms of hold and has been praised by owners and members of this forum. It has a quirky folding mechanism (which I did not like) and I had it welded up.

I'd check that glowing reports of anchors are made by people who have used the specific model - anecdotal comment is misleading or largely worthless. Anchors are an emotive topic (just watch this thread degenerate) - no-one wants to admit they bought a lemon.

You do not mention what make of cat you have - there may be an owners Forum, it would be a useful source.

If you send me an email address, by PM, I'll send you some pdf attachments of articles I wrote on snubbers/bridles, rodes and anchoring, published variously in Practical Sailor (US), Multihull (France), YM (UK) and Cruising Helmsman (Oz). I cannot post them here, they are too large.

Jonathan
 
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14K478

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Just a thought - isn’t the Ultra anchor made in Turkey?

The very silly price might be marginally less silly there?
 

Irish Rover

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You have the same problem we had - roll bars don't fit on the bow roller. It was not such a problem for us - we had a larger choice of anchors. That's a 15kg steel anchor, replaced by the same sized anchor but 8kg - in aluminium.

View attachment 166984

Think Latterally.

The size of anchor (around 12kg if a modern anchor) you need for your cat will fit within the 'normal' luggage allowance, of 20kg or thereabouts, on a regular plane - though the then available space (weight) for any personal possessions is ..... parsimonious (but you have a cabin luggage allowance). We brought a Kobra and a 13kg Knox (both for testing) from the UK to Oz (different occasions) - but there were 2 of us and we planned in advance. Are you planning on a trip to Europe or have guests visiting?

In Greece (I appreciate you are in Turkey) there are CMP distributors, who make both the Rocna and Vulcan. There must be other retail outlets of other brands (though I think for the Excel you are restricted to the UK, Jimmy Green). I'm surprised that Epsilon is not freely available (especially if you can buy a genuine Delta), Lewmar are evident in most sailing markets. Fortunately the Mantus M1 has a monster roll bar - so I think its technical inadequacies are of no concern - it will not fit. :) but that also means Rocna, Supreme, Viking, Knox are also unlikely to fit (though their roll bars are smaller - so check).

I'd contact Spade direct (and any of the other models) - its simply an email and if the answer is uneconomic you have hardly wasted much time, effort nor money :)

Kobra, of the questionable shank, is retailed by Plastimo who have good European coverage - and its shank has not been mentioned (other than by me, I saw a bent one at Preston Marina) by owners on this forum - maybe someone will comment. Its a good anchor, in terms of hold. It has a quirky folding mechanism (which I did not like) and I had it welded up.

I'd check that glowing reports of anchors are made by people who have used the specific model - anecdotal comment is misleading or largely worthless. Anchors are an emotive topic (just watch this thread degenerate) - no-one wants to admit they bought a lemon.

You do not mention what make of cat you have - there may be an owners Forum, it would be a useful source.

If you send me an email address, by PM, I'll send you some pdf attachments of articles I wrote on snubbers/bridles, rodes and anchoring, published variously in Practical Sailor (US), Multihull (France), YM (UK) and Cruising Helmsman (Oz). I cannot post them here, they are too large.

Jonathan
My cat is a Fountaine Pajot Greenland 34.
Buying abroad and bringing in my luggage is not an option - Turkish customs are a nightmare. If they stop you which they almost inevitably will, with a big lump of iron in your suitcase they will take great pleasure in making your life hell. It won't be just a case of show the invoice and pay the tax and the duty. They'll insist you appoint an official customs handling agent and will keep asking for paperwork until the hit on something you can't produce. It would be far cheaper, in the long run, to buy an Ultra, which are available here. I could wait until I go to Greece next summer, but I'd much rather not have to do that.
I notice you haven't expressed any opinion about the M2.
 

noelex

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From your photograph I think it is unlikely that a roll bar anchor will fit. You can download templates from the manufacturer and create a cardboard or thin wood mock up to be sure, but I would not be hopeful.

Of the anchors you mention, the M2 is significantly better than the Delta. If you anchor out frequently I would spend the extra money.

The photograph is not ideal, but your existing anchor does not look like a Delta (or Delta copy) from the silhouette. Possibly a Spade? Can you post any better photographs?
 
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Irish Rover

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From your photograph I think it is unlikely that a roll bar anchor will fit. You can download templates from the manufacturer and create a cardboard or thin wood mock up to be sure, but I would not be hopeful.

Of the anchors you mention, the M2 is significantly better than the Delta. If you anchor out frequently I would spend the extra money.

The photograph is not ideal, but your existing anchor does not look like a Delta (or Delta copy) from the silhouette. Possibly a Spade? Can you post any better photographs?
Mea culpa. It is indeed a spade now that I googled the image. I don't know how i got it in my head it was a Delta.
 
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