Delamination

[Stemar]

I just looked at a 1970's Norman 23 canal cruiser at the right price for my limited budget.

The only fly in the ointment that I can see is that there are some areas in the cabin roof that appear to be delaminated. The top surface has lifted to form 3 or 4 low bubbles, which can be pressed down. Most are 3-4 inches across, the biggest nearer a foot. The surface is intact, and the roof didn't give noticably when walking on it.

I can see three options.

1. Inject epoxy through small holes and glue it all back together

2. Ignore it

3. Walk away.

What should I do? Apart from this, she seems in good condition.


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[oldsaltoz]

G'day Steve,

I see you had no responses to your question yet, I think I may be able to assist you but need a little more information.

What is the cabin top made of? Composite: Balsa core or foam, or it glassed over ply. It sounds a bit like water trapped under paint.

Avagoodweekend. Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

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[Guest]

The description sounds far too much for delamination. If a composite construction then it could be division of the composite .... but then again unlikely from the description.

If the bubble is 'flexible' I'd go for the paint theory by another. If it's hard and unbending - it may be the grp lifted of from the core.

But you will not know until the bubble is cut and you really know its cause / structure ......

You could ask the seller to demonstrate what is causing it ... and let him 'slit' the bubble .... he may not apprecaite you doing it !!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Stemar]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure of the construction, but it seemed as though an outer layer of GRP has separated from an inner core. Whether that's foam or wood I don't know, but the boat dates from the early '70s.

It's more than paint blistering. It has been painted over, I would guess last year, since the paint is in good nick, but as dirty as I'd expect from a winter sitting in the rain. The surface is moulded non-slip with no signs of holes or repairs that might have let the rain in and the boat is dry inside. The cabin top is plenty solid underfoot.

What I need is an idea of how serious this might be. Is it a bargaining point? or is it a reason to avoid this one, which appears to be just what we're looking for otherwise.

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[pvb]

Walk away...

I'd walk away. There's no way of knowing whether the apparent delamination you've spotted is confined to the roof. What if other - more vital - parts of the fibreglass lay-up are suspect? There's no shortage of boats, you'll find another, better one.

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[Guest]

We all go through it ....

Logic says walk away .... another little voice inside says .. but what about if we ....

I know we all do it and we all have to cut and run sometimes .... its hard - but whether right or wrong - you don't get stuck with a hefty repair bill etc. if you should have walked away.

If it is delam - Take very large steps away and forget it. If its painted over bubble ... some of these are actually quite solid - due to the paint layers .... then possibly, but ......

Please play safe and find another .........


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[oldsaltoz]

G'day Steve,

Have you considered a survey? Anything the surveyor finds will be a point you can use to further the initial outlay.

This will also indicate if you should walk away or consider purchase and repairs as listed after a re-negotiation of price.

Soavagoodeasterweekend. Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Guest]

But if already identified ...

a problem .... do you need a guy like me to confirm or what ???

I would press the seller to 'break open' the bubbles and show you that there is no problem. If you do it yourself then there is a grey area of structural damage ???? like breaking a bottle in the off-licence and paying for it !!! Similar for a surveyor - who should techinically not break open / structurally affect what is being inspected. The idea I get from the post is that the bubble is seriously deep and not a surface paint job .... so still my advice is walk away .....

OK any surveyor is grateful for the work ... me included, but is it justified if the buyer already ID's a fault ?? unless he's thinking about putting it right ....... then I wouldn't use a surveyor - I would get a boatyard guy experienced in the repairs etc.



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Let me give a point ...

I will be shot down by others ... but here goes :

If you do not know if a boat has defects or is a good deal. Then a surveyor is a good idea to try and identify / assess the condition of the craft. His reccomendations .... and that is exactly what they are .... are based on his experience and build up of knowledge over years and observations etc. He may not be the best to advise on actual best method of epair etc., but he will point you in right direction.... assist you with decision making, but YOU are the final judge.

If you already know or have identified defects etc. and are reasonably sure about overall boat condition .... then a surveyor is really only for Insurance assessment / coverage. The real people to talk to now ae the actual repairs people who have intricate and accurate knowledge of the tools / methods and pitfalls of the intended repair ... they will also advise generally if its worth it or not !!!!

An architect does not build houses. A builder does not design houses. The same goes for boats .... and many people tend to forget this ......

Many a case has been where a surveyor has recc'd a price range for repairs, the buyer then finding out that it is considerably more .....

So consider carefully who you need, take advise from the best source you can find and finally never commit to buying something till you know what it will cost to repair / refit / bring up to scratch.

Simple advise that many will say .... old-hat, but sadly ignored by many !!!



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[JimMcMillan]

Walk away

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