Define “use sails to control yacht in confined space”

[Skylark]

For those of you familiar with the RYA Coastal Skipper practical course syllabus, there is a requirement to demonstrate control of the yacht in a confined space using the sails.

I’m interested in soliciting views on how this can be achieved safely?

If you’ve done the course, what task did the instructor set for this exercise?

 

[Daedelus]

Sailed out of Newtown creek, b******y instructor insisted I extend a tack so that we ran aground, he was interested to see how we would get her off and just to make it really interesting said, "dearie me, troubles never come singly do they? your engine won't start"

 

[capnsensible]

For those of you familiar with the RYA Coastal Skipper practical course syllabus, there is a requirement to demonstrate control of the yacht in a confined space using the sails.

I’m interested in soliciting views on how this can be achieved safely?

If you’ve done the course, what task did the instructor set for this exercise?

It's a func ourse to teach. Your students are generally OK with basic sailing but you can build up the intensity over the duration. People often go sailing and mebbe do three tacks per passage! You have the chance to do a zillion tacks and gybes, sail trimming etc like you are working up a racing crew.

Once they are used to the boat and each other, setting a triangular short course a d doing timed runs gets the juices going. Also heaving to, man overboard under sail, etc. You can drop a marker in the water, like a Danbury and ask your students to do a couple of maneuvers to get back to it. Eg one tack, one gybe, two gybes, etc.

Once you've got them understanding this stuff in open water, then you can head into ports and harbours. This also heightens their collision avoidance as well assail control. Wheni was taught to teach it, I had it pointed out that sailing slow is more of an art than sailing fast.

As you move into more restricted space, I find that timing is important. Practising these skills at say, 1800 means less traffic then say 1000. I've often used diesel docks in the evening to practice sailing alongside after they have shut for the day. Generally we'll fendered.

By the end of the course as they grow in confidence, you will get a buzz. Enjoy.

 

[The Q]

I think we call that normal sailing here.

 

[NealB]

It's a func ourse to teach. Your students are generally OK with basic sailing but you can build up the intensity over the duration. People often go sailing and mebbe do three tacks per passage! You have the chance to do a zillion tacks and gybes, sail trimming etc like you are working up a racing crew.

Once they are used to the boat and each other, setting a triangular short course a d doing timed runs gets the juices going. Also heaving to, man overboard under sail, etc. You can drop a marker in the water, like a Danbury and ask your students to do a couple of maneuvers to get back to it. Eg one tack, one gybe, two gybes, etc.

Once you've got them understanding this stuff in open water, then you can head into ports and harbours. This also heightens their collision avoidance as well assail control. Wheni was taught to teach it, I had it pointed out that sailing slow is more of an art than sailing fast.

As you move into more restricted space, I find that timing is important. Practising these skills at say, 1800 means less traffic then say 1000. I've often used diesel docks in the evening to practice sailing alongside after they have shut for the day. Generally we'll fendered.

By the end of the course as they grow in confidence, you will get a buzz. Enjoy.

You've pretty well described the week I spent aboard Southern Rival: great fun, and something I should do more of still.

 

[ProDave]

And when the harbour rules say no sailing inside the harbour?

 

[Skylark]

It's a func ourse to teach. Your students are generally OK with basic sailing but you can build up the intensity over the duration. People often go sailing and mebbe do three tacks per passage! You have the chance to do a zillion tacks and gybes, sail trimming etc like you are working up a racing crew.

Once they are used to the boat and each other, setting a triangular short course a d doing timed runs gets the juices going. Also heaving to, man overboard under sail, etc. You can drop a marker in the water, like a Danbury and ask your students to do a couple of maneuvers to get back to it. Eg one tack, one gybe, two gybes, etc.

Once you've got them understanding this stuff in open water, then you can head into ports and harbours. This also heightens their collision avoidance as well assail control. Wheni was taught to teach it, I had it pointed out that sailing slow is more of an art than sailing fast.

As you move into more restricted space, I find that timing is important. Practising these skills at say, 1800 means less traffic then say 1000. I've often used diesel docks in the evening to practice sailing alongside after they have shut for the day. Generally we'll fendered.

By the end of the course as they grow in confidence, you will get a buzz. Enjoy.

Very insightful, thanks for your input. I like the “2 tacks. 2 gybes, 1 tack and 1 gybe” options to get back to a fender etc. but it’s not necessarily within a confined space. Also, slowing the boat with 2 reefs and a scrap of headsail is good, too.

What’s your view of sailing slowly, as above, a slalom within a row of mooring buoys? Engine idling at the ready, just in case ?. Or figure of 8 around a couple of buoys. Always assuming that wind and tide are playing in your favour.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

A slight aside. Running a hank on jib up the backstay to help get the stern to swing in an awkward berth, and again to steady your ship in an anchorage has served me well . From the late, great, John Goode. His tips on "slow sailing" are also excellent.

 

[capnsensible]

Very insightful, thanks for your input. I like the “2 tacks. 2 gybes, 1 tack and 1 gybe” options to get back to a fender etc. but it’s not necessarily within a confined space. Also, slowing the boat with 2 reefs and a scrap of headsail is good, too.

What’s your view of sailing slowly, as above, a slalom within a row of mooring buoys? Engine idling at the ready, just in case ?. Or figure of 8 around a couple of buoys. Always assuming that wind and tide are playing in your favour.

Good idea. The plan is to work them up and are things more challenging each day. On the Clyde I used to sail up to the Kyle's of Bute and through Caladah. The rocks certainly are a concentrator!

Certainly having the engine ready is good seamanship. Having it running in neutral is a good safety net, but that edge of excitement can be lost.

 

[capnsensible]

And when the harbour rules say no sailing inside the harbour?

Best not sail in the harbour, then.....

 

[capnsensible]

A slight aside. Running a hank on jib up the backstay to help get the stern to swing in an awkward berth, and again to steady your ship in an anchorage has served me well . From the late, great, John Goode. His tips on "slow sailing" are also excellent.

He ran my instructor assessment.awesome.

 

[Laysula]

Sailed out of Newtown creek, b******y instructor insisted I extend a tack so that we ran aground, he was interested to see how we would get her off and just to make it really interesting said, "dearie me, troubles never come singly do they? your engine won't start"

If an instructor made me sail my boat aground, we would be following up very swiftly with some instructor overboard drill.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I wouldn’t mind being run aground, can always get off and push. However, being asked to put sails up in a confined area, like Newtown, that would be the height of stupidity. 24ft beam and almost instant 10kn, you’d have to be nuts. I’d sooner row, or punt if it came to it

 

[Daedelus]

If an instructor made me sail my boat aground, we would be following up very swiftly with some instructor overboard drill.

He was an awful lot bigger than me.




We ran aground very gently on mud at just after low water and hanging off the boom to get her afloat again was interesting and there is sufficient room for a 31ft boat to tack quickly and make its way out - would have done it without running aground had I not been gotchered on purpose.

 

[LittleSister]

I wouldn’t mind being run aground, can always get off and push. However, being asked to put sails up in a confined area, like Newtown, that would be the height of stupidity. 24ft beam and almost instant 10kn, you’d have to be nuts. I’d sooner row, or punt if it came to it

You don't have to put the sails all the way up!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You don't have to put the sails all the way up!

If you don’t have a good bit showing, the hull windage will be greater than the sail power. There lies the road to ruin.

 

[LittleSister]

I’m interested in soliciting views on how this can be achieved safely?

If you’ve done the course, what task did the instructor set for this exercise?

It can be achieved safely with a bit of care, knowledge of a range of techniques available, practice and, ideally, some familiarity with the particular boat.

On my Coastal Skipper course with Southern Sailing School years ago (in a Contessa 32 IIRC, two of us Coastal Skipper candidates, and two preparing for their impending Yachtmaster Practical Exam), we did various close quarters manoeuvring under sail, taking turns at skippering.

We certainly sailed in and out of Newtown Creek, and most other places we visited during a very busy 5(?) days, but also IIRC repeatedly sailing in and out of marina berths (in a near empty corner of the marina - it was the depths of winter - and with the marina's permission) and on and off various mooring buoys, etc. In some cases we were doing such manoeuvring with a bit of tide flowing, which can help, hinder or both!

We'd practised and used scandalising the main; reefing down for better control at low speed; holding the sails or boom by hand for fast and delicate adjustment (e.g. with the wind forward or abeam; letting the mainsheet right out, grabbing it just under the boom, and pulling the boom by hand until it just draws 'enough' and letting it out again, in and out as required. ); having one or both sails on deck and hauling each just partially and loosely up and down as required (or rolling/unrolling foresail if applicable). I think we even sailed backwards on occasion by holding the sails out 'manually'.

It's useful to be familiar with how fast/much the particular boat reacts to wind from different angles without the sails, and how this varies with boat speed. And don't forget you could use a bucket on a rope as a brake/sea anchor to help turn or slow the boat if need be. I'm sure there are other wheezes I've forgotten.

Contrary to popular myth, we were never told any 'RYA method' (for this or anything else) - we just needed to have a usable range of techniques (which we learnt from one another, as well as from the instructor), and the nous to be able to select and deploy appropriate ones to achieve the required manoeuvre (and also to get us out of any pickle we got ourselves into the process, or 'complications' ? the instructor sprung on us in the course of proceedings).

Note that the 'skipper' bit of Coastal Skipper is v. important. (This was a steep learning curve for me, as I'd done much of my prior sailing either actually or effectively single-handed, or with familiar crew who didn't need much in the way of explicit instructions.) Communicating to the crew what you're intending to happen, what you want each to do, what adjustments you want as the situation unfolds, changes of plan/instructions etc., what cruel and unusual punishments you will mete out to anyone falling short of expectations, and above all exuding confidence you know what you're doing and what's going to happen next?.

Hope that helps.

 

[LittleSister]

If you don’t have a good bit showing, the hull windage will be greater than the sail power. There lies the road to ruin.

Indeed. So choosing how much to have showing is part of the art of it.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Indeed. So choosing how much to have showing is part of the art of it.

Yes. Of course. I do not believe it would be seamanlike to attempt to leave somewhere as crowded as Newtown under sail in our boat. It is not possible to get control at low speed, the boat reacts very differently to heavier keelboats. As I said, we’d use our paddleboard paddles in preference to sailing. Or else stay put til conditions and other moored boats allowed us to leave. Or accept a tow from someone else. Nobody would thank us for attempting to sail out. I have sailed in, when just 3 boats were anchored. I guess I could have sailed out then too. But not last weekend.

 

[srm]

One Sunday afternoon in November, very many years ago, a boat sailed (without the engine running) in to Largs marina and headed down the lane to its berth with the wind behind it. Turning in to the lane the jib was lowered and main had about 3 metres on the luff with one person trimming by holding the leech. They turned to starboard into their berth and stopped with a mid-ships spring surged on the end of finger cleat. Most people in the marina stopped to watch, probably expecting an almighty foul up, but all went as intended. The crew was four YM Instructors and the Scottish national coach at the end of their five yearly update/reassessment. I remember it well; it was my turn on the helm.

That was back in the 80's and all my RYA Instructor assessments were done without use of engine, including getting out and back in to a small harbour where the berth was against the wall. Coach, John Jamieson's reasoning was that if the Instructors can not handle a boat under sail no one else will gain the confidence to do so.

Both RYA candidates and charter crews got a kick out of sailing in and out of anchorages or (in suitable conditions) alongside and off piers or pontoons even though the latter was not required by the RYA . There are times when I have unrolled a few meters of jib to help make a tight turn in a marina lane, used wind and warps to move berths, or sailed into or out of a finger berth just to keep in practice. As mentioned above such things are best done when no one else is maneuvering.

The practice proved useful a few times with various boats when, for one reason or another, the engine refused to run. Short tacking up Stornoway harbour to the pontoons on a falling tide with the channel partly blocked by a barge on the corner of the fishing pier was interesting. We entered the harbour with two reefs but loosing the wind as we got further in had to shake them out to keep steerage way.