A1Sailor
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If your craft were a catamaran would you consider one for each hull?
Defibrillator on board
- Thread starter girlofwight
- Start date
Plum
Well-Known Member
If you can see the pacemaker implant don't put the pad on top of it but go ahead and use the AED, don't worry, you will not make matters any worse!
Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
Playtime
Well-Known Member
If you are over 70 and have already suffered a potentially serious cardiac event I suggest you might think more seriously about carrying one on your boat. It is the difficulty of access to immediate help that is the problem on a boat. The only lifestyle change now that would materially reduce the risk is to give up sailing which I am not quite ready to do.
I do not carry an AED on the boat but have been seriously considering it - my life (to me at least) is worth more than £1000. I would be more interested in hearing which AED is recommended than reasons for not carrying one from live forever heroes.
I do not carry an AED on the boat but have been seriously considering it - my life (to me at least) is worth more than £1000. I would be more interested in hearing which AED is recommended than reasons for not carrying one from live forever heroes.
pvb
Well-Known Member
You make a valid and compelling point. We all accept a degree of risk when we set out on a boat, especially if singlehanded or shorthanded. Where should we stop worrying and accept the risks?
matthewriches
Well-Known Member
The one I got to play with during a first aid course was Phillips IIRC. Sounded like our late Stephen Hawking
Plum
Well-Known Member
Glad you have been on the course. Well done. Check the temperature limitations of the one you buy. They particularly have a disliking of low temperatures and most will have an led display that will show when it has got too cold (i have never tried using one when it says it is too cold, but i know it takes many hours at room temperature before the low temperature warning senses an adequate temperature). The cabinets the public use ones are in have a heater to maintain minimum temperature.
If you need to use one on a wet person, dry the chest so the pads adhere correctly.
You will need to budget for periodic pad replacements as some only have a 2 or 3 year life, much shorter than the battery life.
Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
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alant
Well-Known Member
Can you pre-plan a heart attack?
tudorsailor
Well-Known Member
I recently discussed this with a resus trainer who also sails with her husband. She has an AED in her car and is getting one for her boat. Her advice was to get one with batteries that are easily changed otherwise its a new unit when the batteries expire.
The units are just over a £1000.
On land in the UK if you dial 999 and give your location they tell you where your nearest AED is located.
If the casualty has a "shockable" rhythm, then one shock can save their life.
TudorSailor
The units are just over a £1000.
On land in the UK if you dial 999 and give your location they tell you where your nearest AED is located.
If the casualty has a "shockable" rhythm, then one shock can save their life.
TudorSailor
penberth3
Well-Known Member
I think you're the first poster to use the "if" word.
Any idea what percentage of cardiac emergencies might be helped by a de-fib? For the remainder, if you're out at sea you've probably thrown a seven.
Add all the other possible life-threatening medical problems that might occur, then ask if it's really worth spending money on a de-fib..
andygc
Well-Known Member
Clin Cardiol. 2010 Jul;33(7):396-9. doi: 10.1002/clc.20790.
The effectiveness and cost effectiveness of public-access defibrillation.
Winkle RA.
Many sudden cardiac deaths are due to ventricular fibrillation (VF). The use of defibrillators in hospitals or by outpatient emergency medical services (EMS) personnel can save many cardiac-arrest victims. Automated external defibrillators (AEDs) permit defibrillation by trained first responders and laypersons. AEDs are available at most public venues, and vast sums of money are spent installing and maintaining these devices. AEDs have been evaluated in a variety of public and private settings. AEDs accurately identify malignant ventricular tachyarrhythmias and frequently result in successful defibrillation. Prompt application of an AED shows a greater number of patients in VF compared with initial rhythms documented by later-arriving EMS personnel. Survival is greatest when the AED is placed within 3 to 5 minutes of a witnessed collapse. Community-based studies show increased cardiac-arrest survival when first responders are equipped with AEDs rather than waiting for paramedics to defibrillate. Wide dissemination of AEDs throughout a community increases survival from cardiac arrest when the AED is used; however, the AEDs are utilized in a very small percentage of all out-of-hospital cardiac arrests. AEDs save very few lives in residential units such as private homes or apartment complexes. AEDs are cost effective at sites where there is a high density of both potential victims and resuscitators. Placement at golf courses, health clubs, and similar venues is not cost effective; however, the visible devices are good for public awareness of the problem of sudden cardiac death and provide reassurance to patrons.
The effectiveness and cost effectiveness of public-access defibrillation.
Winkle RA.
Many sudden cardiac deaths are due to ventricular fibrillation (VF). The use of defibrillators in hospitals or by outpatient emergency medical services (EMS) personnel can save many cardiac-arrest victims. Automated external defibrillators (AEDs) permit defibrillation by trained first responders and laypersons. AEDs are available at most public venues, and vast sums of money are spent installing and maintaining these devices. AEDs have been evaluated in a variety of public and private settings. AEDs accurately identify malignant ventricular tachyarrhythmias and frequently result in successful defibrillation. Prompt application of an AED shows a greater number of patients in VF compared with initial rhythms documented by later-arriving EMS personnel. Survival is greatest when the AED is placed within 3 to 5 minutes of a witnessed collapse. Community-based studies show increased cardiac-arrest survival when first responders are equipped with AEDs rather than waiting for paramedics to defibrillate. Wide dissemination of AEDs throughout a community increases survival from cardiac arrest when the AED is used; however, the AEDs are utilized in a very small percentage of all out-of-hospital cardiac arrests. AEDs save very few lives in residential units such as private homes or apartment complexes. AEDs are cost effective at sites where there is a high density of both potential victims and resuscitators. Placement at golf courses, health clubs, and similar venues is not cost effective; however, the visible devices are good for public awareness of the problem of sudden cardiac death and provide reassurance to patrons.
Momac
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily - depending on your location and circumstances.
There are two defibrillators accessible in an emergency within half a mile of my home. Someone living in a remote location may consider a defibrillator at home.
If taken ill in the car it is likely the emergency services will bring a defibrillator. Not bad idea having a defibrillator in the car but possibly not essential.
If on the boat and not in the marina (there is defibrillator at our marina) you may be in a location such a s at sea where the time required to bring a defibrillator may be factor.
On the whole the boat may be the location where there would be the greater time from a defibrillator reaching the patient and in such a case the boat may be a priority.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
And without quick access to continuing treatment, what are the chances of surviving with serious brain damage?
Having watched that close up, I would rather stay dead. I'm quite sure of this. I'm not old, but I've lived long enough if that is a risk.
mlines
Well-Known Member
The defibs are complex devices with a lot of "intelligence". On my course we were told to simply "use one" as the onboard computer will make the assessment to shock or not shock and that includes sensing a pacemaker. In fact the course was more around care and maintenance as the actual "medical" element is all automated and announced to you in a loud voice.
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
There's a good article about AED here https://www.bhf.org.uk/~/media/files/hcps/aed_guide_final-17_12_13.pdf written for the Resuscitation Council and the British Heart Foundation. Whilst it's mainly concerned with Public Access Defibrillators it's clear that using an AED is one step in a chain of treatment, starting with CPR and ending with hospital treatment. So, whilst an AED may be of use on board, it's not the whole answer. On balance, until AEDs come down in price, I tend to think that it's not something I'd carry on board.
WoodyP
Well-Known Member
The nearest defib to us is on the wall of the local funeral parlour so not far to go if it doesn't work.
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
GrahamM376
Well-Known Member
Problem is, when a stranger has an attack, we don't know what their general medical condition is or what their wishes are so do everything possible to save them. As an ex rest home owner plus having watched parents and sibling go down the slippery slope and die, I have no illusions about what the future holds for the majority of us. Being in my 70s now, I'm more inclined to spend a few quid on a DNR tattoo. A good fatal heart attack is a better way to go than many.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
An interesting summary, but completely devoid of any statistics so not at all helpful in making a decision. In fact it reads more like a sales pitch.
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Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
I would suggest alcohol wipes would help to dry wet skin quickly.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I looked up the London Ambulance Service figures when I did my AED training for FAW, and as I recall it takes your chance of surviving a heart problem from about 1% to about 12%.