Deep Breath - anchor thread

[AngusMcDoon]

I assume the mods will be blocking this series of blatant commercial posts!

I hope they don't. The posts are interesting and informative. Of course he's promoting his product a bit, you wouldn't expect anything else, but the posts are are not blatantly commercial and are appropriate responses on an appropriate thread. I can filter out the commercial promotion aspects even if you can't.

Fortress/Guardian anchors are commonly used on multihulls, especially trimarans, to reduce weight. I do when I'm in the sandier parts of the country, and once it's in I have never had a drag or unset, even on direction change. For my summers in the far north of Scotland I now switch to a Knox which cuts through the commonly encountered weed better. Fortress warn about their anchor's poor performance in weed.

 

[macd]

Of course he's promoting his product a bit, you wouldn't expect anything else...

He was also 'promoting his product a bit' a couple of months ago when he offered free mud-palms to anyone who needed them. No-one belly-ached then.
But then some folk are beyond pleasing.

 

[Fortress Anchors]

Thank you for your kind words and support, they are very much appreciated. Maybe this will help to balance things out a bit:

• The Fortress is going to have setting and holding challenges in grass, weeds, and rocks.

• In grass and weeds, I have heard conflicting reports about its performance over the years, as some owners have said that the anchor is sharp enough to slice through the vegetation and dig into firmer bottoms that are below, while others have said that it does not have enough weight to push the two large flukes through the vegetation.

Based on these observations, I think that the performance of the Fortress will depend upon the thickness of the grass or weeds.

• In rocks, the two large Fortress flukes are going to have difficulty penetrating between the rocks (if at all) and providing firm holding.

In the above sea bottoms, my belief is that a plow type of anchor with a narrow fluke and some serious weight behind it will perform better, and for rocks it has to be structurally strong and made from an unquestioned, high quality of steel.

The terms "having the right tool for the job" and "horses for courses" come to mind and seem appropriate here.

Be safe,
Brian

 

[NormanS]

When anchoring, I take care to select the ground that I'm anchoring in, by using charted information, my own knowledge of the area, my eyes, my fish-finder etc. I would never willingly choose to anchor in "grass, weed, or rocks". I get good results, and sleep at night.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I hope not! There's been nothing remotely 'blatantly commercial' about these contributions.

I've followed the whole thread closely since its start (Serrie and I have a thing going don't you know), and I'm particularly interested in Fortress anchors as I keep one aboard as both a kedge and an emergency bower.

Several posters had questioned the suitability of the Fortress as more than a lightweight kedge, and also its performance in different grounds. The manufacturer took the opportunity to provide very valuable technical information about their product - from which we've all learnt more than one often does from the subjective opinions or casual prejudices (mea culpa) of regulars.

If one is going to get all huffy about the commercial origins of forumites (a much belated welcome to you Brian! :encouragement, then there's a good few of our mates who'd need immediate blocking: engineers, electricians, sailmakers, surveyors, hull-blasters, yacht-deliverers, coastguards (that's commercial now, innit?) and, err... those with RYA connections! (Sorry John, but we are going to have to police the police!)

Not a problem and although I occasionally defend the RYA, it's often against some fairly silly criticism. I don't believe they are perfect and I'm sure I've said that openly.

Regarding this thread, there's a fine line between someone explaining their product and actively marketing it. No ones suggested the lines been crossed yet... It's a very interesting thread and we also have a Fortress as a kedge/second anchor. I confess to never having used it! I might get it out and try it.... The problem is that there's a big Spade anchor on the bow on 90 metres if 10mm chain on a nice electric windlass....

 

[Serin]

I would like to add my thanks for the inputs from Fortress Anchors and other posters who have asked some very important technical questions and raised some interesting points. Also, of course, for the various offers of help.

As the person originally pondering lighter anchors this has been an immensely helpful and interesting thread for me (so far), with a blessed absence of acrimony. :encouragement:

Much food for thought!

PS - Nice to see you back, Babsy. Your Serrie missed you.....

 

[vyv_cox]

Over many years Brian has openly provided company research and construction knowledge to this and other forums. Would that other manufacturers were so obliging.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Thank you for your kind words and support, they are very much appreciated. Maybe this will help to balance things out a bit:

• The Fortress is going to have setting and holding challenges in grass, weeds, and rocks.

• In grass and weeds, I have heard conflicting reports about its performance over the years, as some owners have said that the anchor is sharp enough to slice through the vegetation and dig into firmer bottoms that are below, while others have said that it does not have enough weight to push the two large flukes through the vegetation.

Based on these observations, I think that the performance of the Fortress will depend upon the thickness of the grass or weeds.

• In rocks, the two large Fortress flukes are going to have difficulty penetrating between the rocks (if at all) and providing firm holding.

In the above sea bottoms, my belief is that a plow type of anchor with a narrow fluke and some serious weight behind it will perform better, and for rocks it has to be structurally strong and made from an unquestioned, high quality of steel.

The terms "having the right tool for the job" and "horses for courses" come to mind and seem appropriate here.

Be safe,
Brian

A refreshingly honest, realistic and open appraisal.

 

[Serin]

One further question for Fortress Anchors (if you will)

The recommended chain etc. for a Fortress FX-16 is 8mm. That is the anchor size I would choose if I went for Fortress, but my current chain is a mammoth 12mm (actually 3/8 inch, but near enough) So (excuse me if this is a silly question) would that be a problem? There is no money tree growing in my garden, so I would prefer not to fork out for anchor, chain and new windlass (or gypsy, if I could find one) all at once.

At the moment I don't foresee any likelihood of needing to anchor on rocks or weed (except the patches of pipeweed we encounter on the east coast - but when I do, I just re-anchor where the pipeweed is not) but the CQR will stay on board in any case.

 

[NormanS]

3/8" is actually 9.5mm.

 

[Serin]

3/8" is actually 9.5mm.

Good heavens! So it is! And to think that all these years I laboured under the delusion that we had 12mm chain........

Thank you, Mr. S

 

[john_q]

My Fortress Story

Placencia
Southern Belize
Central America

30^th June 2010

On returning to Placencia Bay last year after hiding out in Big Creek Port from Tropical storm Alex, we saw that a US yacht who opted to stay on a mooring at Placencia had blown up on the beach. The boat draws 6 foot 2 inches and was in about 3 feet of water. The tides here are about 8 to 10 inches (these are springs!) so not much help.

We met up with the owner of the US yacht and arranged to try and help him off the beach.

Plan A was to try non violent methods, try and heel him over and kedge him off.

The bottom in the bay is thick, gooey mud with harder mud underneath and (apart from the Mooring boats AKA Moorings Missiles using Delta anchors) is pretty good holding. We have ridden out 45 knots + here with a 48 foot catamaran who had drifted down on us attached to our anchor chain

We laid our Fortress FX23 kedge anchor with 30 foot of 3/8 chain and about 300 feet of rode into the bay attached to his mast head and started winching. Although we managed to heel the boat over, it was too hard aground to move it. All we achieved was sunburn and dehydration

Plan B The owner then got in touch with the big tug at Big Creek Port which moves the oil tankers and banana ships in and out of the port to come around to come the following day and try and drag the boat off.

The next day we tried to retrieve our anchor before the tug arrived as it would be in the Tug’s manoeuvring area. The US owner of the yacht rowed out and could not shift it. I took a big local guy out in our dinghy with the outboard motor and tried – no luck.

The tug arrived with a 25 foot motor skiff, the 3 large local guys on the skiff could not move it so they passed the line to the Tug. The Tug put the anchor rope on a large rope cable capstan at the stern and tried to get it up, it moved a bit then the capstan stopped!!!

Eventually the tug had to pull it out by going slow ahead. (My thoughts were there goes my anchor!!!!)

The tug crew seemed very surprised how small the anchor was to have required that much force and I was very surprised to see the anchor had not been bent or damaged. (I did not have the anchor in the mud setting as I usually use it for anchoring in the thin sand off the outer Cayes)

The conclusion
The yacht on the shore was lying parallel to the shore line. The tug ran a very heavy rope to the bow of the yacht and pulled the bow round to face the sea then very gently pulled the boat about 30 feet into deep water. Nothing broke!!!

 

[Fortress Anchors]

One further question for Fortress Anchors (if you will)

The recommended chain etc. for a Fortress FX-16 is 8mm. That is the anchor size I would choose if I went for Fortress, but my current chain is a mammoth 12mm (actually 3/8 inch, but near enough) So (excuse me if this is a silly question) would that be a problem? There is no money tree growing in my garden, so I would prefer not to fork out for anchor, chain and new windlass (or gypsy, if I could find one) all at once.

Serin, I don't think that there is any downside from using a heavier chain than what we recommend. However, please be advised that when setting a pivoting fluke anchor in a very soft mud bottom, it is possible that the weight of the chain can sink the shank below the flukes if you try and set the anchor initially with a long scope (ex: 5:1).

As per the image below from our Safe Anchoring Guide, we recommend that in that type of bottom, you should initially set the anchor using a shorter scope:

photo uploading

When the Mud Palms are installed, they should prevent this from happening since they lift the back end of the anchor up so that the flukes take a more aggressive angle into the bottom, but just to be sure, please use a shorter scope when initially setting the anchor in soft mud.

john_q, thank you for your story and for taking the time to write and share it. Much appreciated!

 

[macd]

Brian: thanks for your input, past and present. Always informative and helpful.

While we have your attention, could you elaborate on the reasons for advising that the Fortress should be recoved by motoring in reverse once over the hook? I presume this is to reduce undue stresses on it, but would value any more info you can offer.

 

[Serin]

Serin, I don't think that there is any downside from using a heavier chain than what we recommend. However, please be advised that when setting a pivoting fluke anchor in a very soft mud bottom, it is possible that the weight of the chain can sink the shank below the flukes if you try and set the anchor initially with a long scope (ex: 5:1).

As per the image below from our Safe Anchoring Guide, we recommend that in that type of bottom, you should initially set the anchor using a shorter scope:

photo uploading

When the Mud Palms are installed, they should prevent this from happening since they lift the back end of the anchor up so that the flukes take a more aggressive angle into the bottom, but just to be sure, please use a shorter scope when initially setting the anchor in soft mud.

john_q, thank you for your story and for taking the time to write and share it. Much appreciated!

Thank you again. All very helpful.

 

[ghostlymoron]

The one supplied with a Leisure 17 is a Danforth. I never had a problem with mine but never used it overnight.

My first boat, a Leisure 17, came with a Fortress(- type) anchor. There were rings on the top rail of the pulpit to hang it vertically from the horizontal bar at the top end of the anchor. The bar was drilled near each end for "P"-clips to keep it in place while stowed. It worked.
There are suitable bolt-on fittings available from Defender and other US sites :
http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|2276108|2276122&id=2304757
The prices seem reasonable although the £/$ exchange rate is not great right now.

 

[Fortress Anchors]

Brian: thanks for your input, past and present. Always informative and helpful.

While we have your attention, could you elaborate on the reasons for advising that the Fortress should be recoved by motoring in reverse once over the hook? I presume this is to reduce undue stresses on it, but would value any more info you can offer.

Thank you again. All very helpful.

MacD & Serin, you are very welcome. Our late founder offered the advice of motoring in reverse during retrieval, as he believed that by doing so, less stress was put on the anchor and the deck hardware compared to motoring forward.

In addition to being a lifelong and very adventurous boater, he was a highly-skilled engineer and I suspect that he did load testing to confirm this belief.

 

[Serin]

Regarding this thread, there's a fine line between someone explaining their product and actively marketing it. No ones suggested the lines been crossed yet... It's a very interesting thread and we also have a Fortress as a kedge/second anchor. I confess to never having used it! I might get it out and try it.... The problem is that there's a big Spade anchor on the bow on 90 metres if 10mm chain on a nice electric windlass....

I'm glad you see it that way, because I have found the input form Fortress very helpful indeed in progressing my own thinking about my next move (if any) on the anchor front.

Dom - excellent suggestion to ask the question here!

 

[snowleopard]

Only problem I've ever had with a Fortress is getting the sod out again after a blow.

I have two Fortress anchors: an FX16 as a kedge and an FX37 as a storm anchor. I have had a few problems with the smaller one not setting. A couple of times I have rowed out a kedge and found it just skimmed over the bottom when hauling on the warp. I generally use it when the bottom is liquid mud as found in hurricane holes in the Caribbean. I once set it in English harbour and had a real fight getting it back up as it had dug in so deep. At one point I was afraid I'd have to cut the rope and abandon it. If I'd used the big one it would certainly still be down there.

My bower is a Delta and I wouldn't consider using a Fortress instead.

 

[Serin]

My bower is a Delta and I wouldn't consider using a Fortress instead.

Presumably because of the failure to set? Or the potential recovery problems? Anything else?

What we really need, I think, is the opportunity to "test drive" an anchor. Perhaps the chandlers on the coast could keep sample anchors to be loaned for a couple of weeks for a deposit which would be subtracted from the purchase price (reduced as appropriate for a "demo model") if the customer decided to keep one. That might also bring back a little business to the chandlers with coastal premises from the online trade.