Declining numbers of Sailors

C

ctelfer38

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Daily Telegraph page 12 runs a downbeat article on declining numbers of recreational sailors. Comments include negative impact of Health and Safety disciplines on schools and youth orientated sailing clubs. Motor yachting on the other hand supposedly doing better. This article's claim by British Marine industry research and supported by RYA comment, flies in the face of the optimistic claims that Olympic successes breeds enthusiasm for participation in the country at large.
What is the answer and is there one? I see no way back to more 'Corinthian' days. CBT
 
ctelfer38 said:
Daily Telegraph page 12 runs a downbeat article on declining numbers of recreational sailors. Comments include negative impact of Health and Safety disciplines on schools and youth orientated sailing clubs. Motor yachting on the other hand supposedly doing better. This article's claim by British Marine industry research and supported by RYA comment, flies in the face of the optimistic claims that Olympic successes breeds enthusiasm for participation in the country at large.
What is the answer and is there one? I see no way back to more 'Corinthian' days. CBT
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I believe the claims of an overall Olympic legacy, from London at least, have been debunked, so I see no reason to doubt the gist of the article as you report it. My perception is that, sadly, sailing is in decline as fewer younger people are able or willing to make the necessary long term financial commitment. There have been a number of threads on YBW on this topic recently.
 
Grumpybear said:
I believe the claims of an overall Olympic legacy, from London at least, have been debunked, so I see no reason to doubt the gist of the article as you report it. My perception is that, sadly, sailing is in decline as fewer younger people are able or willing to make the necessary long term financial commitment. There have been a number of threads on YBW on this topic recently.
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Ahahh, I see the earlier discussions. Not encouraging is it? CBT
 
I'm never entirely sure in these threads why fewer people on the water is a Bad Thing. The other side of the coin are threads about over-crowding and densely-packed marinas replacing traditional moorings. Obviously a contracting market is bad for people making a living in the sailing industry but for those who finance their sailing by other means? I don't think I'd lament a buyers' market for marina space, shorter waiting times for river moorings and the prospect of getting a berth when turning up late at Yarmouth on a summer's saturday night.

I'm quite willing to have my mind changed, I just don't get why this is so "Bad"
 
Do you not feel that sailing is such a wonderful thing that you automatically wish that everybody could share in and understand it?
 
I think the mental and physical condition of young people in this country is declining very rapidly .. ..

over protective parents, computer games, poor diet, too much focus on exams, culture of blame regarding accidents, risk averse institutions, fear of the outdoors, fear of wandering around all day without mummy and daddy supervising you ..... FFS sake some people have their kids on a tracking GPS ... phones preventing normal interaction developing - unrealistic life expectations
being normalised etc etc etc etc ..

Around the Solent you see the 10 -5 sailing of a generation who expect to be in the pub/restaurant by 7 whatever the tide is doing .......

when i was a kid we all had scabby knees all the time ..... now you hardly ever see them - just glum faces staring out of the back of the car ...

i feel terribly sad when i see the overweight youngsters eating crap - before i had my paper round my personal disposable income was ZERO and so was all the other boys and it was better that way - no money worries.

On the tube the other day Father and son of maybe 10 sat on seats - train fills up. Of course youngster on half fare should be made to give up his seat ... never occurred to the dad that his little prince ...

my tells the story of the kids running around being a nuisance on the ferry to IoW - bang into him and his mate - youngster gives out a bit of lip - so dads mate grabs kid and dangles him over the rail by his ankles ....

anyway its always a pleasure to see youngsters screaming and shouting and skylarking around .... just increasingly rare ..

rant over .....
 
Kelpie said:
Do you not feel that sailing is such a wonderful thing that you automatically wish that everybody could share in and understand it?
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Call me a misanthrope (other forumites can hopefully attest to my general sociability) but I feel happiest when mine is the only boat in the anchorage and I can watch the sun go down without another human in sight except my partner. Hands up who finds anchoring more sociable when they can chuck a beer across to the next boat? We all gain happiness from different things: Hipster coffee shops, sports car driving in the countryside, trekking in the wilderness, visiting obscure minor league football grounds...I'm guessing that on a train spotter forum somewhere they're lamenting the demise of the pastime when a rogue contributor points out at least that there's more room on the platforms these days. Yes I want everyone to find happiness, but I don't have a problem if they find their happiness on land somewhere...
 
Cloona said:
fear of wandering around all day without mummy and daddy supervising you
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It's not the kids who are afraid there, though - it's mum and dad.

Worried either that something bad will happen to the kids (and ghoulishly encouraged to do so by the media), or concerned (and not without reason) that some busybody will accuse them of being irresponsible.

Pete
 
laika said:
Call me a misanthrope (other forumites can hopefully attest to my general sociability) but I feel happiest when mine is the only boat in the anchorage and I can watch the sun go down without another human in sight except my partner. Hands up who finds anchoring more sociable when they can chuck a beer across to the next boat? We all gain happiness from different things: Hipster coffee shops, sports car driving in the countryside, trekking in the wilderness, visiting obscure minor league football grounds...I'm guessing that on a train spotter forum somewhere they're lamenting the demise of the pastime when a rogue contributor points out at least that there's more room on the platforms these days. Yes I want everyone to find happiness, but I don't have a problem if they find their happiness on land somewhere...
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+1

Pete
 
Its nothing to do with sailor ourselves of course? The image the sport has is not exactly the best you need to be old and rich or just rich...

Sorry there is certainly on the Solent an attitude that puts me of socialising with other sailers....

Ask a willing none sailer about people who sail rich or fanatics I would say is the reply and in todays world there is certain truth in that... May people struggle to justify the bills or the time to maintain a sailing boat against other more easily accessed activities. For your annual holiday its easier to charter and guarantee the weather.

Family/ cruiser racing on the south coast is few and far between and if you want to be be vaguely competitive costly....

In time I can see the sailing I grew up with and loved vanishing and commercial activity days and the like taking over....
 
Cloona said:
I think the mental and physical condition of young people in this country is declining very rapidly .. ..

over protective parents, computer games, poor diet, too much focus on exams, culture of blame regarding accidents, risk averse institutions, fear of the outdoors, fear of wandering around all day without mummy and daddy supervising you ..... FFS sake some people have their kids on a tracking GPS ... phones preventing normal interaction developing - unrealistic life expectations
being normalised etc etc etc etc ..

Around the Solent you see the 10 -5 sailing of a generation who expect to be in the pub/restaurant by 7 whatever the tide is doing .......

when i was a kid we all had scabby knees all the time ..... now you hardly ever see them - just glum faces staring out of the back of the car ...

i feel terribly sad when i see the overweight youngsters eating crap - before i had my paper round my personal disposable income was ZERO and so was all the other boys and it was better that way - no money worries.

On the tube the other day Father and son of maybe 10 sat on seats - train fills up. Of course youngster on half fare should be made to give up his seat ... never occurred to the dad that his little prince ...

my tells the story of the kids running around being a nuisance on the ferry to IoW - bang into him and his mate - youngster gives out a bit of lip - so dads mate grabs kid and dangles him over the rail by his ankles ....

anyway its always a pleasure to see youngsters screaming and shouting and skylarking around .... just increasingly rare ..

rant over .....
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This is sad old man comment , but as ever there is an element of truth in it. Times are changing and with them so are the interests of young people. There is a lot more time spent on line these days but so what? Our fathers would have commented on how much time we spent watching TV - they couldnt do that because TV didnt exist in their day.

I dont see that its for us or anyone else to judge. If kids want to sail - good. If they dont want to sail - equally good. Its their choice.
 
Cloona said:
I think the mental and physical condition of young people in this country is declining very rapidly .. ..

over protective parents, computer games, poor diet, too much focus on exams, culture of blame regarding accidents, risk averse institutions, fear of the outdoors, fear of wandering around all day without mummy and daddy supervising you ..... FFS sake some people have their kids on a tracking GPS ... phones preventing normal interaction developing - unrealistic life expectations
being normalised etc etc etc etc ..

Around the Solent you see the 10 -5 sailing of a generation who expect to be in the pub/restaurant by 7 whatever the tide is doing .......

when i was a kid we all had scabby knees all the time ..... now you hardly ever see them - just glum faces staring out of the back of the car ...

i feel terribly sad when i see the overweight youngsters eating crap - before i had my paper round my personal disposable income was ZERO and so was all the other boys and it was better that way - no money worries.

On the tube the other day Father and son of maybe 10 sat on seats - train fills up. Of course youngster on half fare should be made to give up his seat ... never occurred to the dad that his little prince ...

my tells the story of the kids running around being a nuisance on the ferry to IoW - bang into him and his mate - youngster gives out a bit of lip - so dads mate grabs kid and dangles him over the rail by his ankles ....

anyway its always a pleasure to see youngsters screaming and shouting and skylarking around .... just increasingly rare ..

rant over .....
Click to expand...

You could continue with how when they get in their 20s they spend all their money on iPhones and foreign holidays. So will never be able to afford a house. Totally their fault.
 
Fwiiw, 5 years ago our little harbour had 8 cruising yachts on for and aft moorings. This summer we had 4, all local. 2 of these have been for sale since half way through the summer.

The sailing club has had no races this year. To keep afloat, the club has had merge with the local small diving club.

Amazingly, the kayak section of the club has been moderately busy.

I consider myself lucky that I managed to sell my boat 4 years ago, before the serious downturn occurred.

Yep the evidence is all around. Sailing is an extreme minority activity these days.

Very few visiting boats this year. Not even Joe Pennington and Master Frank.
 
Cheap foreign holidays, warm and sunny weather abroad. People just aren't used to rough and ready living any more, central heating and travelling in cars means people just aren't that hardy. There's major social, financial and employment pressures on young men, big mortgages to maintain, employers expect to own you these days, wives expect husbands to be breadwinners, decorators, DIY'ers, etc etc. Running a boat demands time people haven't got and Marinas have priced themselves out of the market.
 
savageseadog said:
People just aren't used to rough and ready living any more
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I think there's a tremendous amount of truth there. I'm still way on the right side of average ownership age despite having just turned 40. I have a standing invitation to all my pals of a similar age to come for a sail, but the issues that come up are a) the sea and its movement; b) the cold and rain; c) - very strongly - privacy, loo facilites etc. The only pal who regularly comes for a sail is over 60.

Ten, twenty years ago you could still sell hotel rooms without a bathroom and you went off down the hall. Now nothing of that sort exists. People expect more for their time/money and a few mill of MDF between them and you when they're on the bog- witness a couple of recent threads about people wanting twin-head 40 footers for privacy's sake- just won't cut it. People are less used to the outdoors and this results in a relectance to rough it (as they see it) and especially when they're roughing it not on solid ground but on a rollercoaster they can't get off for hours and hours and they'd rather do something else. Easyjet, Travelodge and all that- its bottom of market now but those two alone provide a travel experience which is orders of magnitude better than what the same money bought say 15 years ago.

My mates struggling by on average wages might as well fly to the moon as buy a boat on top of all the above and a decent one represents an ongoing financial risk should their incomes change. Going to sea as a leisure activity can't compete on any front.
 
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I think youngsters have just got bigger horizons these days. They don't need to be wannabe RKJs etc. Pretending to be adventurers while pottering around the coast between weather forecasts with enough PPE to do a RTW. If they want to see distant shores, middle class kids (who surely are the target demographic) jump on a plane, go see, live in some style. Sailing is like hitch-hiking - a necessity that could be fun sometimes.
 
I came late to sailing but this is a lament across most sports and activities. When I played a lot of cricket in the late 80s and 90s we struggled to get kids to stay beyond about 15, despite just about paying them to play.

Golf clubs are closing and those that aren't are offering deals to entice people to join. That's despite juniors paying SQRT(sod all) for membership and the cost of equipment fairly cheap. Many clubs even offer cheaper membership up to around 25 or older. Manufacturers are pulling out of the industry it's declining that fast.

I've heard similar laments from football and rugby clubs, despite those sports being popular with the broadcasters. Or is that because?

On the other hand there's also so much more to do. I wish I was young enough to gave a go at serious mountain biking. Skateboarding looks like great fun. Don't do computer games but looking at them I'll bet if was 15 I'd be spending at least some of my time playing them.

But we also insist that kids stay at school to 18 and then half go on to university, a large proportion wasting their time in degrees that don't even add value to their life time earning potential. And whilst those kids are at school they're swamped with homework, course work and exams. I couldn't believe it when my son went to 6th form college in September and had his first A Level exam in early January (this was 14 years ago so may have changed) and was expected to spend the Christmas holiday revising.

Maybe when they'd get to their later years they'll discover the joys they've missed, we can only hope so because their youths look bloody miserable to me.
 
I am very reliably informed that the average occupancy of marinas nationally is only 80%. This means many must be running at breakeven or below. If there aren't enough boats to fill them then revenues can only be increased by putting up prices. There seem to be plenty of unused mooring buoys too. Retraction doesn't help those of us still sailing as facilities and quality of facilities will suffer.
 
I am not at all convinced that the number of sailors is declining, even if the number of sailors in UK coastal waters is going down.A hell of a lot of people are chartering, sailing in flotillas or using dinghies at beach clubs, all in nice warm places. Why would they want the bother and expense of owning a boat or even sailing in the expensive, grey, wet, crowded and snobbery-ridden waters off Britain. I'm damned if I know why I do it.
 
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