Decision time (diesel not an option )

[gonfishing]

Hi All
I have now looked at an Aq171 4cyl dohc engine and 280 leg, and have been made aware of some of the inherrant problems i.e needs to be fully tuned all the time and particular attention to cam belts and drives but this will fit my boat nicely so still a possibility.
I have also looked at an Aq155 with 290 drive not sure if this outdrive will be suitable it looks a bit on the big & heavy side, what are the pro's and con's of this set up?? guess that will require the full change over transom plate and bell housing etc I may be wrong ???

And finally having a look at an Aq 145 with 280 leg this week, this is the 4cyl single ohc job, again it will fit the purpose so is there anything to look out for on this set up ??
I could go the 3lt glx route with 280 outdrive but that's quite an undertaking and will probably over capitalise the boat

So price etc all about the same so if this is the route you had to take what would be your choice????
cheers

Julian

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[seafarer]

Diesel. No! twin diesels every time.

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[BarryH]

One thing to remember, they're all old engines now. So the usual checks re the exhaust manifold corrosion. As I sais before. The 171 IF kept in fine fettle will be a eager little beastie, but it would hae to be in good nick to be on my contenders list.

The 145. Based on that old nail the B23 lump. Where can one start. I'm very intamate with my one.I don't think theres not one part of its internal bits that I haven't looked at more than once. If it runs it runs, if it don't I go shooting or drag the bike outta the garage.
Thats not being entirely fair though. I run mine hard, very hard. Its not let me down that often. Most of the bits, along with the other car derived lumps, can be sourced from your local car spares places. Its not overly thirsty, can be a bit harsh at prolonged high revs and be a bitch starting from cold. Again, check the exhaust valves on the rear 2 cylinders for signs of the manifold corrosion. On the upside,you can get a pattern part manifold for that one.
Oil cooler runs of the raw water side and acts as a strainer so needs looking at once a year or so.The proper strainer in on the "wrong side of the water pump for some reason. So keep an eye on the pump impeller.
It uses the solex PAI44's down draughts. These are no longer listed as spares. Check the spindles for wear. They're fine when running in tune but need a twiddle once every so often to keep them so.
Loads of tuning potential if your so inclined. I had mine running a turbo and fuel injection from the 23E car lump. Easily done but drop the compression other wise the piston crowns soon end up in the crank case!
If the oils not been changed for a while, check the oilways in the block. They're not that big and will sludge up at the drop of a hat. If the oils been changed rugular, this shouldn't be a prob.
Bottom end on these lumps is pretty bombproof. I've had mine spinning up to 6000 revs for a quick blast. They'll mince away for ages without much trouble.
Do remember though that these lumps are now getting old. In boat terms they're now antique according to a few people. Doesn't mean that they're not any good,mine pushes the boat along at 30 odd knots quiet well. Oh and one other ting. Half the nuts/threads are imperial and the other half are metric. A right royal pain.

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[BrendanS]

You should write a book Barry! Seriously, you've got the language skills and the knowledge.

Or go freelance tutor. I'd spend good money for you to come and take me through my engine so's I can understand how to do basic servicing

<hr width=100% size=1> I asked an economist for her phone number....and she gave me an estimate

 

[gonfishing]

Ah!! at last some positive vibes!!! I will keep this one on my list !!
cheers

Barry

p.s will the manifold of my old 130 fit???

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[gonfishing]

Ah!! at last some positive vibes!!! I will keep this one on my list !!
cheers

p.s will the manifold of my old 130 fit???

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[tr7v8]

No 130 is OHV based on old B20 Volvo and 145 is OHC as Barry said based on B23 Volvo 240 GLE/T lump.
One thing I would add to Barrys notes is that unless someone has done it recently then change the Cambelt AND tensioner. The cambelts on mine were so so but the tensioner bearings were dire, one was stiff and the other virtually solid. Yet neither made a noise. Not the easiest cambelt to fit but not expensive I think the belt is £ 11 and the tensioner £ 18 both from local Swedish German type independant spares place. Whilst they're off you'll have the heat exchanger off and they can go down the rad shop for a good clean mine were both filled with muck.
Also worth a look on VolPen website for info.



<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[BarryH]

I know what you mean about the cam belt swapping. The front of the bottom pulley has to come off along with all the cooling, alternater adjusting arm. Cant do much about the cooling system, but I modified the crank oil seal carrier on mine. All it involves is cutting away the "splash" guard thats cast into the ali. Ok so its mullering it a bit, but how much mud do you get splashing up from your bilges. On the car I can't see its purpose on a boat though.
It saves having to take the crank pulley off. Those six little 10mm nuts that always seem to me made of the softest metal volvo could find. The mod was easy. Clamp the casting in a padded vice, gently, take hacksaw and cut off the cast shield. Finish off with a file to smooth things out. Makes belt changing easier, especialy if room is tight at the front of the engine.

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[tico]

AFAIK the 145 is less prone to going off the boil as the 171 as it's not so highly tuned.

let me know if you go for the 145 or 171 as i've got the manuals and a whole load of spares that i dont need anymore (snigger!)
i cud drop them off next time i'm down

<hr width=100% size=1>Been there, done that, got the oily T shirt

 

[BarryH]

In the overwhelming response for a petrol engine course...............

Welcome to the Baza's Bodgit (give it a bang) Petrol Maintenance Course.

The course will mainly consit of:-

<font color=red>Lubrication.</font color=red> this part of the course is the most important. The choice depends on how you want ro run. Bitter for slow old plodders or Lighter larger for those revved up.

<font color=red>Fuel system</font color=red> This part of the course covers both high octane (spirit based) and low octane (wine for the woofters)

<font color=red>Electrical and Timing</font color=red> This part covers the larger cooler is working at peak efficiency or wether the bitter is warm enuff and how well the glass is replenished.

And finally <font color=red>Drive train</font color=red> After a long day with intensive intake, do you phone the other half to pick you up or phone a cab.

Also included in the course notes are numbers of seastart, reliable engineers and who's giving the best APR on credit cards to pay for all the bits and pieces.

Please phone or PM as places are filling quick.

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[gonfishing]

Hi Phil
How did your cruise go??? hope you enjoyed.
I will probably go for the 145 option it will suit my purposes and it has'nt had to bad a slagging off!! Advantage with this engine it is still fitted in a boat and I have been offered a trial. So I will be giving it a thrashing somewhere on the tidal side of the Thames!!! Anyone fancy coming along to offer a second opinion???

Julian

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[gonfishing]

The boat it's coming from is on the Thames fancy coming along and and giving it a once over?? could grab a few beers after!!! the current owner wants a bigger faster guzzler in his boat hence the sale of current set up !!

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[BarryH]

This engine wouldn't be installed in an old Boston Whaler would it? Have sent a PM, let me know.

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[Dave_Knowles]

Hi Barry,

My old (about 1990) 151A is still giving problems. I fitted a new minifold and I suspect the back port is corroded a bit so the head may need to be sorted or even replaced. Is the 151 worth spending money on? Also is there a car head I could get that would be a swap?

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[BarryH]

Giving problems in what way. If the manifold was changed due to corrosion, indicated initially by a slightly high temp running at higher revs, then you could still have probs with valve/valve seat corrosion. Did you have the head off? Are they ok? Its normally the rear 2 cylinders that take the brunt. Remember that iron sitting in a bath of salt water will corrode pretty quickly.

If it is this that still the prob, then remedial work will not cost an arm and a leg if you go to your local engine reconditioners. I had new valve seats and valves, jhead skim, new gasket set and the valve clearences done for 200 quid the lot. Not bad considering volvo wanted 180 quid for a gasket set alone. And no theres absolutly no difference betwixt the car gaskets and the "marine" ones.

A compression test will show up any probs wiv the valves. Look for differences between the cylinders. If they are all in the same area then all should be ok or if low then all is shagged. While you've got the head off check the core plugs, especially the one under the inlet manifold. These little buggers corrode out of sight and go at the most inopotune moment. Be careful how you indo the manifold bolts. Lots I heve come across have got helicoil inserts, same goes for the thermostat housing and that carries a lifting point btacket. Whaddya mean you took it off cos it got in the way of the HT leads. Oh while your at it, change the rubber seal between the water pump and the head. The only thing that seals this up is when your torquing down the head.

When you replace it make sure that theres no oil or liquid, cos you drained the coolant, didn't you, when you put the head bolts back in, cos I've see blocks cracked due to hydtaulic stress.

What else, dunno maybe get a quote for a Ford Puma conversion form Lancing cos as everyone know petrol boats are crappy in't they.

So if its not the head thats causing problems. What is it. I've just sat here fighting with dyslexia for the last 2 hours typing this so it had better have sorted it. Or I'll send the boys round with a crowbar and big lump hammer to make sure the head is buggered so you can use this info to put it right!

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[gonfishing]

Dave
this sounds very familiar, in fact identical to the probs i have had with my 130, I threw nearly a grand at it, I am now going to use it as a mooring block!!!
You may find that you have got a cracked head so before you spend anymore get it pressure tested, I should have done that at point 1 it would have saved me a fortune.
Julian

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[Dave_Knowles]

Barry,

I have done a lot of work on cars in the past but never with overhead cams. What should I look out for when removing the belt before taking off the head?

If the head has bad corrosion around the exhaust port can this be welded up or will it need a new head?

Can I fit a car head to this engine?

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[BarryH]

Nah the port itself should be fine. Its the valve seat and valve that will be buggered. If its got as afar as the port being corroded go to a scrappy and lever off another head from the appropriate car. There's bugger all difference, well none that make any to fitting.

Umm when you say working on cars in the past. How long ago was this. I haven't seen many cars in a while that still use ohv lumps. Apart from crappy renaults The original mini and those coffins on wheels Maestos and montegos, the small capacity ones.

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[BarryH]

Oh yeah you asked about cam belts didn't you, sorry. Ok removing the cam belt. Take off all the gubbin's that in the way. Rotate engine till no1 is at top dead centre. Make sure the punch mark on the cam sprocket lines up with the nontch in the cam cover and the dizzy is pointing at no1 lead.

Undo the tentioner nut, thats the one in the middle of the pulley. Now push it back and put a punch/screw/old rusty nail through the hole in its shaft to hold it back. The belt should now be slack enuff to pull off the cam pulley. Its trapped though ain't it. Thats cos you wasn't paying attention earlier. You didn't take the alt belt pulley off the crank did you. Ok so go an do it. right ok now you can take the belt off. Sling it, its no good, No, not even as a spare you skinflint.

Failing that time the engine up at no1 tdc and cut it with a stanley knife, Its a hell of a lot easier!

Replacement is a reversal of said procedure above, apart from the cutting it bit, well thats what they all say in the manuals. What they tend to leave out is that half the bloody bolts are corroded beyong belief, they assume you've got a fully stocked workshop and you have some idea as to what your doing and can understand what you've just read! Hmm maybe I should write a manual ot two for "real world" repairs.

When replacing the belt, make sure that the crank is at TDC, the cam pulley punch mark is lines up with the notch in the cam cover and the punch ,arks on the dizzy pulley line up with the punch marks or tab on the block. Being the sohc laump you can safely turn the crank with the head installed. The pistons won't hit the valves. If on the other hand it was the 171 twin cam 16 valve jobby, you'd trash the engine!

Anyway who appointed me petrol engine guru. I'm just a tight git that won't pay so called marine engineer prices.

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[tr7v8]

Dave, it's worth buying a s/h Volvo 240 Haynes manual off of E Bay cos it has much better piccies of some of it than the Seloc manual. Also the boat manual is 'orribly generic in that it covers every engine fitted to the drive so it I4/V6 & V8 engines.
I think my manual cost me £ 3!
When you reassemble it all don't worry too much about the dizzy timing just the cam and crank. After you have it all back together you can the pull the dizzy out and move it a tooth or 2 back and forwards, to get the timing ballpak right then time it by swinging the dizzy back & forth. Make sure you have good flank drive sockets for the seized bolts and a pot of 6 & 8 mm bolts to replace the shagged ones. I used Hermetite Copper Silicon gasket for all of the joints on mine and have NO water leaks, which the prophets of doom mongers had reckoned I would.

<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500