Decided To Buy a Berth In Palamós: Advice Please

[Mino]

Decided To Buy a Berth In Spain: Advice Please

First of all, thanks to all who have contributed to my previous threads.

Have decided to buy a berth in either Palamós, Sant Feliu de Guíxols, Port de Platja d'Aro, or L'Escala, and a small flat nearby, and become resident, spending bulk of time on the yacht. Don't really know these towns/the local area, hence advice from those who do would be appreciated.

It was mentioned in one of my previous threads that Palamós can get bumpy. Assuming that was in the newer marina rather than the old port, or does it get bumpy in both, and, if I find myself in the position to choose a berth in either, which over all would be the better choice?

Any other advice from those who have done the same thing, albeit in another part of Spain, would also be appreciated.

 

[westernman]

First of all, thanks to all who have contributed to my previous threads.

Have decided to buy a berth in either Palamós, Sant Feliu de Guíxols, Port de Platja d'Aro, or L'Escala, and a small flat nearby, and become resident, spending bulk of time on the yacht. Don't really know these towns/the local area, hence advice from those who do would be appreciated.

It was mentioned in one of my previous threads that Palamós can get bumpy. Assuming that was in the newer marina rather than the old port, or does it get bumpy in both, and, if I find myself in the position to choose a berth in either, which over all would be the better choice?

Any other advice from those who have done the same thing, albeit in another part of Spain, would also be appreciated.

Of all those, my favorite would be St. Felui de Guixols. We really like the town and there are some truly excellent restaurants at very reasonable prices.

But then we only visit a few days a year. Visiting is not at all the same thing as being there permanently.

 

[Wansworth]

Assume you are aware of all the qualifications needed to sailin Spain and the increase in buracracy and just plain anoyance at how things are done.in Spain

 

[Mino]

Assume you are aware of all the qualifications needed to sailin Spain and the increase in buracracy and just plain anoyance at how things are done.in Spain

I am. However, it is more a matter of need rather than desire. My philosophy is: go native - when in Spain, think like a Spaniard. If, like most Brits, I decided to not adapt, then yes, it would drive me nuts. Luckily I am good at 'going native.'

 

[Wansworth]

I am. However, it is more a matter of need rather than desire. My philosophy is: go native - when in Spain, think like a Spaniard. If, like most Brits, I decided to not adapt, then yes, it would drive me nuts. Luckily I am good at 'going native.'

Your starting off with the right idea,nothing worse than some winging brit comparing how its done back home.Having said that;having lived here for a good while I reserve the right to express my opinion about short comings,welcome to sunny Spain

 

[Mino]

Your starting off with the right idea,nothing worse than some winging brit comparing how its done back home.Having said that;having lived here for a good while I reserve the right to express my opinion about short comings,welcome to sunny Spain

Thanks, on both counts. Fair enough, every country has them, and it's also a good way to let off steam now and then when one's positive attitude and patience gets stretched too far. There is always an occasional muppet who will invent something because he/she thinks the intended Brit victim is clueless/rich/should be ripped off and/or to be annoyed just because they are not Spanish.

 

[Plomong]

First of all, thanks to all who have contributed to my previous threads.

Have decided to buy a berth in either Palamós, Sant Feliu de Guíxols, Port de Platja d'Aro, or L'Escala, and a small flat nearby, and become resident, spending bulk of time on the yacht. Don't really know these towns/the local area, hence advice from those who do would be appreciated.

It was mentioned in one of my previous threads that Palamós can get bumpy. Assuming that was in the newer marina rather than the old port, or does it get bumpy in both, and, if I find myself in the position to choose a berth in either, which over all would be the better choice?

Any other advice from those who have done the same thing, albeit in another part of Spain, would also be appreciated.

Be careful, most berths in Spain are not purchased, but rather leased. A typical scam is to "sell" a berth whose lease is near expiry to Johnny Foreigner for the price of one whose remaining lease is considerably longer.

Plomong

 

[Mino]

Be careful, most berths in Spain are not purchased, but rather leased. A typical scam is to "sell" a berth whose lease is near expiry to Johnny Foreigner for the price of one whose remaining lease is considerably longer.

Plomong

Ouch! Thanks for the tip!

 

[chinita]

Be careful, most berths in Spain are not purchased, but rather leased. A typical scam is to "sell" a berth whose lease is near expiry to Johnny Foreigner for the price of one whose remaining lease is considerably longer.

Plomong

Where is this scam happening? I would really like to know.

I have bought three berths in Spain; all have been legally processed and notarised.

The term of the lease has always been obvious and transparent.

And I am a 'Johnny Foreigner' who speaks little Spanish.

 

[chinita]

To the OP.

I obviously do not know your circumstances but am interested to know your reasons for buying a flat as well as a berth; especially as you say that you will spend most of your time on board.

To me, this seems like to be overcomplicating the situation. I would spend six months there on board before doing anything; then - perhaps - buy a berth if you believe it stacks up economically.

There must be hundreds of thousands of apartments all over Spain, many distressed and owned by expats desperate to offload.

Do you really want to join that group?

Keep it simple.

 

[westernman]

Why buy a berth?????

I don't understand this berth buying lark. May be some one here can explain the interest to me.

For instance a typical berth for sale in Port Palamos is 216,000 euros for a 12mx4m berth. The lease expires 2020. I.e. you are paying 216,000 euros rent for 8 years.

I don't know the rental costs in Palamos, but I would assume they are similiar to Port Rosas a little bit to the north. The yearly rate there for 11.99m is 5460 euros (which is expensive compared to the South of France - in my marina it would be less than half that).

For the cost of "buying" in Port Palamos, you could stay anywhere in that area at less cost paying the daily visitors rate. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Mino]

I don't understand this berth buying lark. May be some one here can explain the interest to me.

For instance a typical berth for sale in Port Palamos is 216,000 euros for a 12mx4m berth. The lease expires 2020. I.e. you are paying 216,000 euros rent for 8 years.

I don't know the rental costs in Palamos, but I would assume they are similiar to Port Rosas a little bit to the north. The yearly rate there for 11.99m is 5460 euros (which is expensive compared to the South of France - in my marina it would be less than half that).

For the cost of "buying" in Port Palamos, you could stay anywhere in that area at less cost paying the daily visitors rate. Makes no sense to me.

No such thing as Freehold re. berths then? So who actually owns the berths outright, and how come we cannot purchase them? If the answer is, 'The marina,' then nuff said. Time to revise ones plans, again.

 

[charles_reed]

I have to add my opinion to those of Chinita and michaelchapman and suggest you're jumping in at the deep end of a pool which may or may not have water in it.

My experience of the Spanish Meditarranean coast is that it had little to recommend it and the legal implications (dependent on the provinicia) are convoluted.

I'd suggest giving it a 3-6-month try, employ a gestoria (the Spanish equivalent of a solicitor) for all your purchases.

 

[chinita]

I don't understand this berth buying lark. May be some one here can explain the interest to me.

For instance a typical berth for sale in Port Palamos is 216,000 euros for a 12mx4m berth. The lease expires 2020. I.e. you are paying 216,000 euros rent for 8 years.

I don't know the rental costs in Palamos, but I would assume they are similiar to Port Rosas a little bit to the north. The yearly rate there for 11.99m is 5460 euros (which is expensive compared to the South of France - in my marina it would be less than half that).

For the cost of "buying" in Port Palamos, you could stay anywhere in that area at less cost paying the daily visitors rate. Makes no sense to me.

It is really a question of whether the market has peaked or not.

In 2003 I bought a 12m berth in La Manga for €19k and promptly resumed cruising. I sold it four years later for €80k (after paying Government and local taxes) and enjoyed a permanent rental income of €3k pa for the intervening time.

I reckon that I sold at the top of the market.

I would not dream of buying anything in Spain now.

 

[westernman]

It is really a question of whether the market has peaked or not.

In 2003 I bought a 12m berth in La Manga for €19k and promptly resumed cruising. I sold it four years later for €80k (after paying Government and local taxes) and enjoyed a permanent rental income of €3k pa for the intervening time.

I reckon that I sold at the top of the market.

I would not dream of buying anything in Spain now.

Ok. 19K for a berth with may be a 15 year or more lease, when the rental is 3K. The sums stack up then.

 

[Mino]

Appreciate the replies, some of which seem to be voiced with a degree of concern. Understandable. Again, the reasons for basing myself in that area are not a matter of choice, but necessity: self and yacht need to be in that area for personal reasons that I have no desire in sharing on the internet (no offence meant to all of you helpful posters, but hope you can understand), but as I said, I value your opinions and input to this thread. Keep them coming.

 

[westernman]

No such thing as Freehold re. berths then? So who actually owns the berths outright, and how come we cannot purchase them? If the answer is, 'The marina,' then nuff said. Time to revise ones plans, again.

I don't think there is such a thing as a Freehold berth in a marina. I have certainly never seen such a thing in Med. France or Spain.

 

[Mino]

I don't think there is such a thing as a Freehold berth in a marina. I have certainly never seen such a thing in Med. France or Spain.

This is why I'm on this forum, asking so many questions: only returned to the life two years ago after several years away. Re-learning the ropes and expected to be on the curve for a while yet...

 

[westernman]

This is why I'm on this forum, asking so many questions: only returned to the life two years ago after several years away. Re-learning the ropes and expected to be on the curve for a while yet...

Don't jump to any conclusions from what I have been saying.
I don't have a clue either.

 

[chinita]

I have never come across a freehold berth either.

I have just looked at the position in Tomas Maestre Marina, La Manga, where there appear to be 14m berths on offer for about €90k. With only seven years on the lease remaining.

The whole business of 'who owns the lease' is a bit of a mystery. I remember looking at Calpe but then I discovered that the lease was about to expire and thought better of it. The 'Bar Talk' at the time was that these berths would be bought by Spanish Nationals who, once bought, would be entitled to keep the berths for their families in perpetuity and without penalty once the lease was renewed.

The other important factor to consider is just what is on leasehold. Many of the marina properties and commercial businesses are subject to the same lease as the berths and it would be interesting to see what their position would be at the end of the lease period.

Anyway, I think it is a risky business these days. I was lucky but I would not chance it again.