Deben entrance - caution

[Cantata]

John White, the HM at Felixstowe Ferry, tells me that he's having to pull a lot of boats off the West Knoll lately, who don't stay on the narrow 'deep' track between the West Knoll and Mid Knoll buoys.
The trick at present is to keep the Mid Knoll buoy in transit with the northern of the two Martello Towers, that will keep you pretty well spot on as I can testify having tried it out when I came out of the river this morning. See the chartlet available on www.eastcoastpilot.com.
As ever the entrance is a place not to take liberties! All the various write-ups say how to do it safely. I watched boats coming and going near LW yesterday, perhaps they were locals and know what's what, but if not, it must have been stressful on board...

 

[Marmalade]

J
The trick at present is to keep the Mid Knoll buoy in transit with the northern of the two Martello Towers, ...

OK that explains a great deal. We entered the Deben weekend before last - if anything I strayed the other side of the line between the buoys and although we were pretty much on HW we saw 0.2 beneath the keel at its shallowest. We draw 2m.

On the way out I was following a boat of similar draft that stayed E of the line and we saw plenty of water (1m shallowest) with an hour or more to go until HW.

 

[Otter]

The channel shallows very quickly to the West, it's narrower than I've known it and on the flood it's hard not to get swept West. Erring to the East isn't much better but it seems to shallow a bit slower. The transits are very difficult leaving, constantly looking back. I've plotted both buoys and now keep to the line between them on the plotter but it's not as much fun as it used to be!

 

[tidclacy]

Thanks for the heads up hoping to go up the Deben next week.

 

[sailorman]

The channel shallows very quickly to the West, it's narrower than I've known it and on the flood it's hard not to get swept West. Erring to the East isn't much better but it seems to shallow a bit slower. The transits are very difficult leaving, constantly looking back. I've plotted both buoys and now keep to the line between them on the plotter but it's not as much fun as it used to be!

Bring back "The Meets" i say

 

[Hadenough]

Bring back "The Meets" i say

And what might they be?

 

[jerrytug]

I was wondering that. I goggled it and it's where the river 'meets' the sea

 

[Hadenough]

In there now at FF. Came in at 1 hr before high, two days or so before full springs. Dead on the line between the bouys. Shallowest was 1.2m below the keel, 1.7 draught, so 2.9 depth. I swung about a bit to see if there was any more water but it does seem as though the Channel is very narrow.

 

[sailorman]

j

And what might they be?

two .marks that are aligned to give a transit. that was traditional on the Deben bar as mooring a bouy was difficult in the shifting shingle

 

[nigelm]

I remember seeing those mentioned in the East Coast Rivers books by Jack H Coote , mid to late 70's I think .

 

[Santana379]

The positions of the metes were not corrected at the start of 2000 to reflect the winter changes to the bar, and they were replaced by the buoys sometime during week commencing 8th May 2000. Until they were replaced that Spring, keeping them in transit actually put you aground.

How do I know, you may well wonder?

On the evening of Friday 5th May 2000 I grounded on the bar on a falling tide, with the metes in transit, in my Golden Hind "Francis Fletcher".

We were towed off by Duncan Read half an hour later for £20. The first towrope parted, but the second merely frayed and got us off. Quite a lot of grunt was needed as the boat weighed 7.5 tonnes, and was long-keeled with deep bilge plates. We were suitably cautious coming back in on the Sunday.

When we left the river the following Friday evening, the buoys were in place.

 

[Hadenough]

j
two .marks that are aligned to give a transit. that was traditional on the Deben bar as mooring a bouy was difficult in the shifting shingle

Agree with that, would be much more confidence inspiring.

 

[Cantata]

In there now at FF. Came in at 1 hr before high, two days or so before full springs. Dead on the line between the bouys. Shallowest was 1.2m below the keel, 1.7 draught, so 2.9 depth. I swung about a bit to see if there was any more water but it does seem as though the Channel is very narrow.

It is! The chartlet shows this - www.eastcoastpilot.com/downloads.html

 

[Hadenough]

It is! The chartlet shows this - www.eastcoastpilot.com/downloads.html

That's the very one I used.

 

[Jan Harber]

The East Coast Rivers books by Jack H Coote are still in print. Jack, who was my dad, wrote the first Edition (published by YM in 1956) and went on to produce 14 more editions at regular intervals until 1993 after which I took over the book and with help from my sister Judy have produced a further five editions. The latest East Coast Rivers was published in 2008 as part of the Wiley Nautical Cruising Companion series.
Re the Deben metes, these are referred to in all the editions between 1956 and 1998, often in a different position each year. As has been mentioned, the leading marks were removed in 2000 because by this time the entrance had moved so much further south that the metes had become obsolete. By the time of our 2003 edition the southerly entrance along the shore "had become so narrow and shallow that even local boats were having difficulty finding the best water." A new entrance was buoyed through shoals on the Bawdsey side, known as The Knolls. The green conical that has been known as "Bar buoy" was re-named Mid Knoll and a red can was added, now known as West Knoll.
So you can see what the leading marks, or metes, used to look like, I will attach pic of the relevant page from the 1956 Edition of East Coast Rivers (all in black and white in those days).
Have tried to attach pix but am told it "exceeds my file limit". Cannot find how to look at my attachments. Advice needed.
Jan

 

[ditchcrawler]

I have a copy of the 1993 Edition of East Coast Rivers and on page 18 is a nice picture which says "This Folkboat is leaving the Deben with the metes lined up astern"
It is Folkboat sail no 256 flying what looks like the flag of St George and the metes can be seen lined up on the right hand side of the picture.

 

[DanTribe]

The East Coast Rivers books by Jack H Coote are still in print. Jack, who was my dad, wrote the first Edition (published by YM in 1956) and went on to produce 14 more editions at regular intervals until 1993 after which I took over the book and with help from my sister Judy have produced a further five editions. The latest East Coast Rivers was published in 2008 as part of the Wiley Nautical Cruising Companion series.
Re the Deben metes, these are referred to in all the editions between 1956 and 1998, often in a different position each year. As has been mentioned, the leading marks were removed in 2000 because by this time the entrance had moved so much further south that the metes had become obsolete. By the time of our 2003 edition the southerly entrance along the shore "had become so narrow and shallow that even local boats were having difficulty finding the best water." A new entrance was buoyed through shoals on the Bawdsey side, known as The Knolls. The green conical that has been known as "Bar buoy" was re-named Mid Knoll and a red can was added, now known as West Knoll.
So you can see what the leading marks, or metes, used to look like, I will attach pic of the relevant page from the 1956 Edition of East Coast Rivers (all in black and white in those days).
Have tried to attach pix but am told it "exceeds my file limit". Cannot find how to look at my attachments. Advice needed.
Jan

My copy says I should dip the burgee as a sign to call for the pilot, or telephone Billy Newson on Felixstow 37.
Is it time to buy a new copy?

 

[sailorman]

I have a copy of the 1993 Edition of East Coast Rivers and on page 18 is a nice picture which says "This Folkboat is leaving the Deben with the metes lined up astern"
It is Folkboat sail no 256 flying what looks like the flag of St George and the metes can be seen lined up on the right hand side of the picture.

was that a black folk boat "Hlin", if so it had my old engine in it

 

[Hadenough]

Facinating stuff but back to the subject.
I came out today on the back transit of Mid Knoll in line with the Martello nearest the sailing club as recommended by John White and found much more depth. Brings you out well east, probably 300m, of West Knoll buoy

 

[john_q]

I have a copy of the 1993 Edition of East Coast Rivers and on page 18 is a nice picture which says "This Folkboat is leaving the Deben with the metes lined up astern"
It is Folkboat sail no 256 flying what looks like the flag of St George and the metes can be seen lined up on the right hand side of the picture.

The Folkboat in the photo is William Blyth which used to be based at Paglesham for many years. William Blyth belonged to our family for 30 years and I remember when the photo was taken, a windy day, well reefed down.