Death in the Solent

[david_e]

Re: Safety drill

Thanks to you & Colin for this. Am of to Pwllheli for 2 weeks this week-end so won't have time to make my own but will look for something in the chandlers.

 

[Cornishman]

I wonder if we would have heard about this if a certain former DJ had not been on board?
Just heard the 22.00 BBC1 News and they seemed to have the details correct.

 

[Jeremy_W]

Allowing for the usual element of misreporting, it reads as if the remaining members of the group were in shock. I'm sure that in normal circumstances they could have figured things out pretty quickly.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: \"booms\"

You didn't hear every five minutes on the radio/television when a helicopter crashed and killed 11 men, did you? made page 10 of the Mirror, didn't even make some of the papers, just not news is it. Maybe we should have DJ's on the helicopters, then people might notice us aswell!

 

[ccscott49]

I tend to use the "all stop" method, the sailing school method is all very well, but not what I do with my boat, I think you have to use whichever method suits the boat, I hit my engines immediately turn into the wind and stop the boat, (as long as the person is not under my stern!!!) then mess with the sails!

 

[extravert]

The typical sea school way of doing things under sail (tack-heave to-off on a reach-tack again-jib away-reach back-head to wind) is great for practicing at sea school, but from trials I have done with my crew pretending I am overboard, it just won't work in a real situation. So from discussions with crew and some practice, this is our procedure...

Head to wind
Lob anything that floats and is near to hand overboard
Start the engine
Jib down
Main in tight
Circle round to come back to flotilla of floating things head to wind again

I try to ensure that all my crew can understand and remember these simple things and know how to do them. I think it's important to practice these things not just in MOB drill but in everyday sailing, for example always getting one of the crew members to start the engine or drop the jib so in an emergency it will be second nature.

The purist would ask 'What about if your engine failed?' However in my sailing career I have never had a real MOB and had an engine failure only once, so the risk of the two coinciding is not zero but very small. That's a risk I am prepared to take.

When I did my yachtmaster exam during the MOB test we did the recovery under sail, as shown how to on the course. The first question the examiner asked was why we hadn't used the engine, and then gave us a long list of reasons as why a recovery under power is better than a recovery under sail, and if it's there and working then use it.

 

[Guest]

If thats your daughter in the piccy lets take her sailing next we are out....please

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: BBC don\'t know their boats

Would it have covered the entirety of Page 3 of today's Times if a "well known broadcaster" had not been aboard?

It is interesting to speculate on the labelling of the light switches. The passengers had been for a lunch and drinks in Yarmouth on a birthday bash and collectively could not manage to work out what "Nav" or similar might mean. Given that broadcast DJs deal with complex equipment on a professional basis _and_ have to be able to think on their feet I'm wondering if there is more in this tale than first appears.

Just MO but it fails to add up. The press are on a "blame the skipper and legislate on safety" kick.

Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Swan 38? Quality of reporting.

Having seen a side-on picture of Nausicaa, she looks like a Swan 38.

Metro (a free London morning rag) claimed that boat had been taking part in Cowes Week. That seems unlikely with only one person aboard knowing which way was up.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Swan 38? Quality of reporting.

The BBC report last night did identify her as a 38'. In fairness to the original BBC report, the data about her length came from the MCA press release (where they even got the name wrong).

 

[ToMo]

Re: Swan 38? Quality of reporting.

It seems to me that the No1 journalists rule has been generally (and liberally) applied again!
"Dont let the truth get in the way of a good story"

TôMö

 

[Jeremy_W]

Re: BBC don\'t know their boats

"It is interesting to speculate on the labelling of the light switches."

I don't think there's anything odd. To switch on a light you flick the switch next to light, dont you? But on a yacht this doesn't work unless you've located that switch (on the panel by the chart table) labelled "INT" in cheap Dymo-tape. Now how obvious is that when your old mate, host [and pub landlord] has fallen overboard?

Would you intuitively realise that the way to get sound out of a mixing desk is not to push up the big friendly-labelled "VOLUME" sliders on the right hand side but to find the appropriate dull-coloured knobs marked "gain" and twiddle them first?

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: BBC don\'t know their boats

>
I don't think there's anything odd. To switch on a light you flick the switch next to light, dont you? But on a yacht this doesn't work unless you've located that switch (on the panel by the chart table) labelled "INT" in cheap Dymo-tape. Now how obvious is that when your old mate, host [and pub landlord] has fallen overboard
>
Might be a fair point. But throwing all the switches , or even trying each one, appears to have been beyond evenybody's abilities.

Basic safety lesson perhaps.

Make darned sure all your switches are labelled and that the labels don't come off.



Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[SteveA]

Re: BBC don\'t know their boats

I have to agree that this tragic accident would not have been mentioned if the celeb wasn't on board.

A past Commodore of our local sailing club always sailed onto his mooring - had been doing this for decades and then one day the boat gybed as he was approaching the mooring - curtains! made the local news but nowhere else.

It can happen to anyone but won't hit the news unless someone 'famous' is involved.

All our thoughts should be for this guys family rather than just nick picking - nobody does these things on purpose.

 

[ccscott49]

Re: BBC don\'t know their boats

I agree with you Steve, who gives a damn what type of boat it was, I feel for the family and if any of his family read this, I convey to you my condolences.

 

[alant]

MCA have since circulated 'manning requirements' to sailing schools. Requirement appears to be a 'Skipper'- Day Skipper level minimum + a least one 'Competant Crew'. How this applies to competant crew courses, where only the instructor is qualified is a mystery.

 

[alant]

Bit much to assume a Blue Ensign automatically infers that a skipper is experienced as in ' fairly experienced'?
I am sure the poor guy was, but (no disrespect for either the individual or club involved) like any club membership a Blue Ensign surely just means a member has joined & paid their subs at that particular club. How many RYS members can 'sail' their own vessels? Many can, with great skill, but has a White Ensigned yacht skipper more experience than a Blue? & thus by inference a Blue more than a Red?

 

[tcm]

Re: Death in Solent and MOB\'s

I don't disagree with any of the points made. However, I have had a real MOB and it shows up the shortfalls of the fender/hat in water practise. The most important difference of a drill is just that - it's not real. it's that fender or hat again, hey ho.

First reaction, especially near land (where most are up on deck, moving around, and hence most risk) is that it's a joke - don't say man overboard unless you really mean it! Second reaction is that, hell, s/he's gone swimming!

Getting past these first two reactions takes the MOB at least 100-200 yards away, perhaps a lot more if the MOB is the skipper.

Now, some of the most difficult and risky of sailing/boating manouvres must be performed under the most stressful conditions. As it's the owner-skipper who has gone overboard, we've also got to very quickly establish a new line of command. So if it my boat and I'm overboard, is it you who takes over, or the wife who knows the boat? Lets hope that only a few seconds would be needed to work this out. There's now a fair chance that the MOB will have drifted towards too-shallow water. They may or may not be moving. If the boom has sent the man overboard, his or her blood and brains may be splashed around helm. Still feeling calm? Would the next-best-helm of your family crew be hard-minded enough if it's your body parts left on the boom? And not many if any skippers would be able to stop someone (you? me?) leaping in when close-ish to their kids/wife if the helm "oops, missed it first time round" and wants to go round again. Forget any of that "your turn to pick up the fender".

In comparison to the "real thing", preparation for MOB might include throwing a fender overboard. But to add realism, perhaps the drill should focus on one person doing almost everything, should raise the stress levels dramatically perhaps using fake blood, having EVERYONE else (unnannounced) "in" on the drill screaming at the helm the whole time about the awfulness of the current situation (not giving useful advice on what to do), another screaming about their own situation with a broken arm, another with a bucket of cold soup to produce "vomit" or at least water to throw at the helmsperson, have a CD player/radio on at high volume, and let go the foresail.

Sadly, in this instance, it seems the guy may have been dead as he hit the water. If he wasn't, getting a crew in shape to handle the situation with the slickness we all hope for would have required the whole of a little trip in the Solent to have been taken up with doing MOB drills, and needed an extensive safety briefing.

As for dialling 99 on a mobile - if I was on someone else's unfamiliar boat in the solent, perhaps daydreaming on the foredeck and the owner/skipper went overboard - I might use the mobile in my pocket first and then clamber along for the vhf/engine controls second.

 

[bedouin]

Well - I did say it was a guess; but it was based on a little more than the colour of the ensign.

Nausicaa is a nice boat (Swan 38), IRC rated and the skipper is a member of a respectable club. That all implies (but does not prove) that he was a reasonably experienced sailor.

I have my own (not very flattering) opinion about White Ensigned yachts, and about the manners of many who fly the blue ensign; but in my experience boats flying the blue ensign are normally competently handled.

You cannot tell anything from the fact a boat flys a red ensign. It could be skippered by a charterer, a tyro or someone who has half-a-dozen circumnavigations to their credit.

 

[cleo]

Didn't Eric Taberly go in a very similar manner, of unbriefed crew unable to do anything useful?
Didn't Rob James drown when his crew couldn't stop the (big racing multihull ) boat alongside him in the water, on the first pass?
Don't we all assume that WE skippers will be rescuing THEM clumsy crew, and not the other way round?
Isn't it our responsibility, and if we don't face up to it, it's our culpability?

bilbo