Death by Power Boat

[Rob_Webb]

I predict Osborne Bay next

Whatever the rights or wrongs of this particular case, a conviction for manslaughter is bound to make the high-speed boating community sit up and consider their actions far more than some vague qualification looming on the horizon.

I predict the next tragedy will be in Osborne Bay where you routinely see prize nobbers ploughing through tightly packed anchored boats at unacceptable speeds. There might not be a technical speed limit (being the 'open' solent) but in my view we all have a moral obligation to treat a busy anchorage rather like a supermarket car-park, and creep along ready for a pedestrain/swimmer to pop out at any moment from between two parked cars/boats. I used to enjoy a dip when anchored at Osborne but now consider it a health hazard, thanks to these twerps.

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[bedouin]

Re: I predict Osborne Bay next

In fact there is a speed limit in Osborne Bay - and anywhere within 1000yds of the shore in the Eastern Solent - of 10 knots

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[Chris_Stannard]

Re: I predict Osborne Bay next

Yes, but who knows about it and who obeys it and who enforces it? Perhaps we need the Harbour Authority out there with a speed gun and a couple of Ribs to chase offenders. I do not have all the answers and my concern remains that unless we start to sort out a way of making sure that the level of ignorance in some boat owners is reduced, John Prescott will do it for us. And we may not like his solution.

<hr width=100% size=1>Chris Stannard

 

[Rob_Webb]

Re: I predict Osborne Bay next

I agree, the enforcement is lacking but I believe that up-front licensing will not cure this behaviour - rigorously enforced heavy punishements to offenders will grab their attention more vividly and change behaviour. If you knew that ploughing through the anchored boats in a RIB could land you in court even without having hit anyone/anything, then that would focus your mind! The analogy to road law is clear - is doens't stop it all but it certainly acts as a big disincentive to a lot of the people a lot of the time not to drive outrageously.

BTW, I think that even 10kts is unacceptably fast under some conditions - when Osborne (or anyway similar e.g., Studland) is packed full of boats and relaxed families with people wanting to potter about in the water, all boats passing through have a moral obligation (which I believe should be backed up by the above-mentioned law) to slow to a walking pace, rather like the supermarket carpark analogy in my last post. 10kts is simply too fast, and this isn't based purely on that old chestnut about wash but simple safety. I would prefer to see a speed of 5kts enforced in tight anchorages - any large planning powerboats that find it hard to steer accurately at such slow, safe speeds should simply not come into this zone and make do with dropping a hook on the edge of the pack.

Maybe a bit extreme for some tastes but there you go. I've actually had enough of it all anyway and am voting with my feet - my boat is on the market and I'm leaving UK waters for a saner environment!

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[pugwash]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

Disagree. It's not amazing at all. Nothing wrong with an opinion based on the available facts. It's only hot air after all. What matters is the flexibility to change your mind in light of new facts.

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[pugwash]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

Disagree. It's not amazing at all. Nothing wrong with an opinion based on the available facts. It's only hot air after all. What matters is the flexibility to change your mind in light of new facts.

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[brianrunyard]

Very difficult to separate swimmers and boats completely, very often the family sit on the beach and have a swim and sunbathe while the boat either sits at anchor a few yards off the beach or some members of the party go for a ride. In these circumstances the boat can't stay 200m out.
Take Studland, using the boat is a much easier way of getting to the beach from Poole than driving through Wareham and getting stuck in traffic.

<hr width=100% size=1>Brian
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/brunyard

 

[jimi]

Re: I predict Osborne Bay next

Just my pennysworth.

1) I do not believe the swimmer was being irresponsible swimming outside a marked zone .. do you.
2) There is clear resposibility for a skipper to ensure that an adequate look out is maintained at all times.
3) There is a clear responsibility on the skipper to employ a speed appropriate to the circumstances.
4) I would be reasonably foreseeable to the man on the Clapham omnibus that there would be swimmers in the water. .. it was one of the hottest days of the year off one of the busiest beaches on the south coast.
5) Someone died

Without prejudging as I'm not aware of the exact facts, I would say that if it can be shown that the skipper was in clear breach of 2 & 3 then prima facie there was negiglence which led to someone's death ie manslaughter.


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[Peppermint]

Re: Death by Power Boat just accept it

The general thrust of this forum is anti legislation so why change because of this incident?

Anyone who was in the area with a VHF and a set of eyes could tell you that just the one death was a good result.

Is it not a bit knee jerk to think of segregation schemes, enforcement and licences on the back of this incident. The boat driver is in for a rough time from the existing laws already.

The weekends boating and beach activities must have cost a scad of lives and hospital visits as do most weekends of DIY or hiking or whatever.

So whats different here?

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[l'escargot]

In fact it is very easy and several places do it on the IW, the beach just west of Yarmouth is a good example. One half of the beach is buoyed off with lines going out from the beach and parallel to it - you land by boat on the unbouyed half and you swim in the buoyed area where boats are not allowed. The other alternative is like Shanklin/Luccombe where there is a buoyed access channel for boats between the swimming area. People accept that there are pedestrian areas where they cannot drive their car, it's not a huge leap to apply the same principle to boats and swimmers.

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[Rob_Webb]

Re: Death by Power Boat just accept it

Anti-legislation is too simplisitc. The issue is legislation at which end:

1. front-end i.e. up-front licensing to be on the water with a craft
2. back-end i.e. punishment for accidents/incidents arising from use of craft

I agree that the general thrust of this forum was against lots of 1. But I'm far from clear that it is also against 2 - I have argued in favour of lots of two, in appropriate cases, because it's more efficient - the fear of major legal retribution will have more effect on behaviour than a laminated disc in a cabin window.

And ANY incident that involves a death caused by another person is worthy of scrutiny. Just because both parties were nominally on leisure time makes it unacceptable to 'just accept it' - a sentiment probably highly offensive to both families right now.

If you kill yourself falling off a ladder or a mountain I don't give two hoots. But if you kill someone else around you doing something negligent (i.e. easily preventable) I want the law to come down on you like tidal a wave.

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[Rob_Webb]

Re: Death by Power Boat just accept it

Anti-legislation is too simplisitc. The issue is legislation at which end:

1. front-end i.e. up-front licensing to be on the water with a craft
2. back-end i.e. punishment for accidents/incidents arising from use of craft

I agree that the general thrust of this forum was against lots of 1. But I'm far from clear that it is also against 2 - I have argued in favour of lots of two, in appropriate cases, because it's more efficient - the fear of major legal retribution will have more effect on behaviour than a laminated disc in a cabin window.

And ANY incident that involves a death caused by another person is worthy of scrutiny. Just because both parties were nominally on leisure time makes it unacceptable to 'just accept it' - a sentiment probably highly offensive to both families right now.

If you kill yourself falling off a ladder or a mountain I don't give two hoots. But if you kill someone else around you doing something negligent (i.e. easily preventable) I want the law to come down on you like a tidal wave.

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[max_power]

Re: Death by Power Boat just accept it

What you say makes sense and is the way of things in say the aircraft industry.

Every time a 747 crashes we learn something new about why a 747 crashes.

We accept a death when for instance a yacht is run down by a ship or founders in bad weather and do not cry for further legislation .

Most deaths in our sport sadly are the result of speed. But our society worships speed. Motoring programmes for instance actively encourage it which has the inevitable effect on young minds.

Barristers ( for better or worse)now take up the vacuum for inefficient law making through the compensation culture. Our governing factor at sea is surely the Colregs. Any barrister I would have thought could hammer anyone with this as in this case.

I think Aitken and Archer have had a strong effect in many areas. A few high publicity prosecutions in boating would probably the desired effect.

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[duncan]

Re: I predict Osborne Bay next

Studland is 4 knots

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[Peppermint]

Re: Is it possible that

on a swimmers website somewhere their headlines read

ROGUE SWIMMER CRASHES INTO SPEEDBOAT

and then rattles on about the need for restrictions on swimmers?

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[Rob_Webb]

Re: I predict Osborne Bay next

That's even better (slower) than I realised - not that I could break it by much anyway!

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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

Very sad that the swimmer died but he should have been aware that he was outside the swim area, also who's to know whether or not he'd been under the water and had just surfaced when the boat hit him.

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[aod]

Sailing Exodus

Funny you should say that Rob.

I have been sailing for 25 years including amongst other things racing Around Britain and Ireland twice. Two handed race to Iceland. One and a bit AZAB's. 6 Biscay crossings more RORC and JOG races than I can remember and this year will be my seventh Fastnet. I am a yachtmaster with commercial endorsement and also a cruising instructor and like you I think it's gone mad in this Country.

I am fed up with being ripped off at every turn, running the illegal lobster pot gauntlet every time I go off sailing and the stress of managing a crew who you know could sue you for every bruise and rope burn or indeed not forgetting the drunken idiot who negotiates their way across a raft of boats and happens to trip over your springs or spinnaker pole.

Like you I am also selling my boat and packing it in, and whilst I am certain that fortunately there are more people starting sailing than hanging up their oilies I am equaly sure that there are a fair number who have had enough.

It's completely beyond me now why anyone in the UK would want to own, and skipper their own boat.

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[SouthPark]

Re: Sailing Exodus

Dunno why people go on about "proper qualifications". I did RYA Powerboat 2 a month or so ago (and so am "properly qualified"). It was absolutely trivial. You would learn more in a weekend by yourself with your boat and a decent sailing book. Posession of an ICC is, IMO, completely meaningless.

Southy

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[Rob_Webb]

Re: Sailing Exodus

I've also been sailing for 25 yrs on and off but don't want to give up so have taken a holistic view and decided that it's not only the UK sailing world that has gone mad but UK life generally.... so I'm off to NZ... expect to find the waters equally hectic in some places but the potential for a better quality experience is vastly greater!

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