Death by Power Boat

[Chris_Stannard]

The lunchtime news referred to the death of a swimmer off Bournmouth yesterday, who was struck by a power boat. The owner driver has been arrested and is likely to be charged with manslaughter. So that's two families blighted, the swimmers and the drivers.

I believe the time has come when we all need to be qualified properly before we climb into our boats and have the potential to put others at risk.

<hr width=100% size=1>Chris Stannard

 

[ThomasHome]

Last month a diver was killed near Monaco, he had a flag up but the powerboat was going to fast to notice, he only found out he'd done it when the police caught up with him and pulled bits of the poor sod off his props. There is now a 5 knot speed limit 300 metres off the coast.
Its about time we had some sort of restriction here as there are loads of boats and jet skis going very fast close to the shore. Some sailing boats are not blameless either, as we've seen tenders from yachts with large engines doing the same.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

There are restrictions - the whole coastline there has a 280m limit inside which it is 8 knots max. If people want to ignore that, they will do so whether they have a qualification or not. It's no different to driving a car - we all have to be licensed, and there are speed limits, but that hasn't stopped road traffic deaths. IMHO, the only way this sort of thing will be prevented is with patrol boats near the busy public beaches, and with the power to do something. Didn't they try PWCs in Poole Harbour for just this purpose a few years ago?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[pugwash]

We've all got driving licences and look at the stupid things that happen on the road. Where there are people there are accidents. And according to the RYA figures in the latest YM, the UK has many fewer than other countries like France which demand qualifications. Funnily enough, these figures almost exactly match the road-accidents in the same countries.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Product Liability

A further thought. If it turns out that the power boat owner was unqualified and inexperienced, and he is the original owner of the boat, does that make the boat builder liable for damages to the swimmer's family. You see all these cases of Councils being sued for not taking proper care and so on, and the latest is the case in the USA of McDonalds being sued by people who ate their burgers and got fat. So if a boat builder got sued for selling a boat to someone who was not competent then he might be held liable for any damage caused. That would make the industry think. And it might also make brokers careful about second hand sales. The point there being that, as a professional he should be in a position to judge the comptence of buyers he is dealing with. I never met the people who bought my last boat through a broker.

<hr width=100% size=1>Chris Stannard

 

[ThomasHome]

Re: Product Liability

Where do you draw the line? I have a 2.4m inflatable with a 2hp motor, when I bought it I never used a power boat in my life.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ThomasHome]

Re: Product Liability

Where do you draw the line? I have a 2.4m inflatable with a 2hp motor, when I bought it I never used a power boat in my life.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[l'escargot]

What would go some way towards avoiding this is seperating water users in specific areas and enforcing it. Boats should be totally banned from swimming areas. When I did my diver training, you didn't even mix free swimmers and divers and there is no reason why swimmers can't be prohibited fom boat channels. PWC's and water skiers don't need to run parallel with a beach 50 yards offshore amongst swimmers, which is becoming increasingly common. There's room for everyone, but not to mix.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[duncan]

The french seem to be very good at this - if you 'swim' outside these areas you are required to tow a surface float whether snorkling or not in many areas; there blanket speed restriction within 250m and boat lanes/bathing area rules are all 'policed' - admittedly by keen youngsters but they do do it - based on experiences in Brittany / Vendee admittedly.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[charles_reed]

Agrred, however this poor swimmer appears to have been in a yellow-buoy cordoned zone (ie swimmers only) when this power boat ran over him.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jamesjermain]

Before the lynch mob...

...gets this guy strung up by the painfuls, a couple of pieces of information ought to be included in this thread which came out of the local news broadcast last night.

1) The swinning-only area at Bournemouth extends 200m from the beach.

2) The swimmer was 300m from the beach

3) The local Lifeguard had despatched the Lifeguard pwc to warn the swimmer and bring him back into the swimming zone. It was while the pwc was on its way to the swimmer that he was hit.

The driver of the powerboat clearly has to shoulder the lion's share of the blame for this accident and a manslaughter charge is probably appropriate (in the absence of a 'Causing Death by Dangerous Boating charge). However, I have some small sympathy for him if he was deliberately keeping out the the swimming zone and then hit a swimmer breaking the rules.

<hr width=100% size=1>JJ

 

[bigmart]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

Isn't it amazing how the lynch mobs spring up here prepared to crucify any one when they only have half the facts. I sometimes wonder if the whole boating community are closely related to the Lemming. They seem prepared to tear themselves apart with deep criticism whenever there is an incident. I suppose we should remember the old addage "Never let the facts get in the way of a good hanging."

Martin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Roberto]

Not only swimmers..

..or divers: there are several reports of small sailboats being sunk and people killed (even boats at anchor) by big powerboats under autopilot and without anyone on watch, powerboats with commercially licensed captains and stewardess busy serving GTs

again, they did not realize what had happened until the police found paint scratches on their bow

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jacket]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

Quite. 300m is a long way out from a beach when you think about it, so you may not be expecting swimmers out there. And I'm sure we've all had experiences of how hard it can be to spot swimmers in the water if there's any sort of chop.

If the driver was 300m out (that'll be hard to prove) then I'm not even sure a manslaughter charge is fair. Surely the swimmers more to blame - seems a bit silly going swimming in an area where he could see that there were 3 or 4 speedboats operating.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Robin]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

Hi James

The 'facts' as always vary from different sources, but yes that is what was said on South Today last night.

However, that area is on the road to nowhere, there should be no need to power along just off the beach surely. This may come into the 'look at me aren't I rich, lucky, king of the heap' category. Apparently Bournemouth Council (their rep being interviewed) allow boats INSIDE the yellow buoys 'as long as they are doing less than 8kts'. Whilst he was being interviewed a small cruiser was seen inside the buoys plainly doing more than 8kts, but why do they allow any boats at all inside? Poole for once have it right, no boats inside the markers and the markers are joined with ropes I think too.

Good job this is not the USA where on a sunny day you can sue for miles.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

Funnily enough I was out last Sunday, departing Poole at about 11 am for the Solent. Although there was a fair breeze we were able to see and avoid fishing floats, including the half awash blue plastic cans, and avoid them without difficulty.

I agree we do not have all the facts but I also spotted a couple of swimmers in the water from a boat from several hundred yards. It does appear that the requirement to keep a good lookout at all times was missing on this occasion, otherwise the accident should have been avoided.

Incidentally, although I know that many if not most power boat owners are sensible and careful people, there is an element in the high speed craft who are not, the two on Sunday who played the "lets go as close to this idiot sailing and scare the living daylights out of him" come to mind. And I do know people with sailing yachts who are equally irresponsible. My question is do we want to introduce the law we need to improve safety in our sport or do we want to wait until sime Brussels warrior, who knowws nothing about sailing, decided enough is enough and does it for us.

<hr width=100% size=1>Chris Stannard

 

[Jacket]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

I'm not sure we need aditional laws- after all, most stupidity can be covered under a number of very general laws designed to cover general stupidity and irresponsible behaviour (can't remember the details, but I'll ask my brother next time I see him- he's police). The problem is, no matter how many laws you have, they're no good unless you've got people to enforce them. And currently there just isn't the man power and mone available to police the UK's coastal waters.

After all, which is it that keeps most people behaving reasonably on the roads most of the time- the fact that we have driving licences, or the fact that there are unmarked police cars around the place?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[bigmart]

Re: Before the lynch mob...

I still fall into the education not legislation camp. Running to hide behind the Law to protect us, I feel, is a hiding to nothing. It doesn't protect me from the idiots on the road & nor does it protect them from me & my incompetent actions. Making such major decisions as a kneejerk reaction, from a situation where we are not in full posession of the facts, can be nothing more than foolish. I don't see that scaremongering about the arch enemy "Brussells" really brings anything sensible to the party.

Martin

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[billmacfarlane]

Chris, someone has already mentioned that we are possibly not in full possession of the facts. Do we know if the diver of the powerboat was qualified or not? Could you put your hand on your heart and say that if he was "properly qualified", this tragic accident would have been prevented? On the face of it the skipper made an error of judgement that turned into a tragic accident. It could have happened to anybody, including a "properly qualified" person. To err is human etc., and anybody who doesn't think that is deceiving no-one but themselves. Let's leave the emotional, gut wrenching hasty reactions to the Labour Party and let the RYA carry on with their sensible policy of "education not legislation". That's twice in a month I've defended the RYA. Must be the hot weather.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[aztec]

don't know how this one will pan out but if it helps...

the guy that was arrested and had his boat impounded, was the guy who made the call. he came across the body near the pier. it still remains to be seen if thit was the boat that hit him. from what i've been told, the chances are that it was not.

although this is still supposition and hearsay, the info i've heard does come from a very good source, somewhat closer to the facts than the press usually are.

ps, he's been released without charge, good move. interesting to note the attitude of the police towards " all you boaters, been drinking all day i bet"... he hadn't!


<hr width=100% size=1>